Cont: Trans Women are not Women 3

[Manger Douse]

Professional fighters aren't exactly known for their timidity around violence. Trash talking and out of the ring squabbles are extremely common in this world.

Fallon Fox specifically mentioned it was TERF skulls she liked to crack - not just her opponent and ive no doubt people in this thread would class women like Rolfe as one of those TERFs

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Fallon Fox specifically mentioned it was TERF skulls she liked to crack - not just her opponent and ive no doubt people in this thread would class women like Rolfe as one of those TERFs

Trans woman has unkind things to say about TERFs. News at 11.

 

[Manger Douse]

Trans woman has unkind things to say about TERFs. News at 11.

So if it wasn't just smack talking her opponent why did you bring it up?

 

[Emily's Cat]

Professional fighters aren't exactly known for their timidity around violence. Trash talking and out of the ring squabbles are extremely common in this world.

Have you looked into the kinds of things that Fox said? Sure, there's a lot of trash talk in fighting, but MMA fighters don't generally celebrate causing severe harm to other competitors. And Fox's comments came across as a bit extreme, because she was so very enthused about specifically being able to beat up women.

They were distasteful sentiments in *any* fighter... but they come across as even worse when it's a male-bodied person expressing 'bliss' at causing real damage to women specifically.

 

[Ziggurat]

Have you looked into the kinds of things that Fox said? Sure, there's a lot of trash talk in fighting, but MMA fighters don't generally celebrate causing severe harm to other competitors.

They also don't usually cause actual skull fractures.

 

[Boudicca90]

When it comes to sporting events and transwoman participation in the same, what's in it for society anyway? In other words, we aren't talking about the pickup league at the local Y, where there might be issues, but those issues certainly aren't going to be resolved with hormone tests. We are talking about spectator sports with tickets, admissions, fan bases, etc.

If a transwoman wins a woman's event, isn't the reaction, "Well, duh. What did you expect?"

What are we cheering on in such a case?

When this subject comes up on forums, there are always at least some voices that say, "I hate sports anyway, so who cares?" I think that among the people who are strong advocates of trans-participation in women's sports there are very few sports fans, and very, very, few women's sports fans. I think the supporters of Andraya Yearwood (one of the Connecticut track transgirls) there are an awful lot of people who are inspired by these young people making a tough decision to come out and be recognized, in the face of widespread societal disapproval, but there aren't a lot of people who really think highly of women's track and field as a competitive endeavor.

The point is that having the reaction "Well, duh. What did you expect?" just shows that whatever we do won't be good enough for some people. And it shouldn't be like that since it still hasn't been shown that there are any kind of widespread issues, just some sore losers in a lot of cases. It's like how I try to hold back my anger at certain things around other women because i'm afraid that they will be like "Of course she got mad, what do you expect?" (with the implication that because I was once a man that I am still a man and act with aggression.)

And I would argue more transgender participation in sports is a good thing as it fosters more inclusivity and is important for LGBTQ+ people to have that representation. I may not care about sports, but I do realize it does matter to a lot of people.

 

[Manger Douse]

It was actually AFTER the fight that she gloated about cracking TERF skulls so miss with with that "it's just usual smack talk bro" ****

 

[TurkeysGhost]

It was actually AFTER the fight that she gloated about cracking TERF skulls so miss with with that "it's just usual smack talk bro" ****

I can't find the quote anywhere. Anyone care to post it or are we just gonna jerk around about what we all think it says.

 

[Olmstead]

"How much do I have to artificially cripple myself before I can compete in women's sport?"

Transwomen competing in women's sports is quite literally madness, and it's ridiculous how many people don't see it.

 

[LondonJohn]

I can't find the quote anywhere. Anyone care to post it or are we just gonna jerk around about what we all think it says.

Here you go (took me about 1 min to find it). The quote is from a tweet:

"For the record, I knocked two out. One woman's skull was fractured, the other not. And just so you know, I enjoyed it. See, I love smacking up TEFS (sic) in the cage who talk transphobic nonsense. It's bliss!"


https://www.sickchirpse.com/fallon-fox-jk-rowling-enjoy-fracture-woman-skull/

 

[TurkeysGhost]

They also don't usually cause actual skull fractures.

UFC star Molly McCann has undergone successful surgery to repair the orbital bone she broke in her win over Priscila Cachoeira on Saturday.

https://talksport.com/sport/mma/513279/ufc-london-molly-mccann-gruesome-injury-win/

Broken limbs and head injuries are common as dirt in combat sports.

An amateur fighter in the UK died from a TBI

Amateur kickboxer Sai Aletaha dies after Southampton match injury

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-hampshire-50468140#:~:text=Amateur%20kickboxer%20Sai%20Aletaha%20dies%20after%20Southampton%20match%20injury,-18%20November%202019&text=An%20amateur%20kickboxer%20has%20died,in%20Southampton%20on%20Saturday%20night.

 

[Lithrael]

Yes, sport is a problem, nobody much minds the occasional unusually superhuman athlete with a significant biological advantage, but a whole class of them starts to turn heads. There are potential workarounds but obviously none that will please all comers, since a level playing field is really more or less a conceit for all sport in the first place. We just want it kind of level ish so there can be competition, but we don’t want to keep finding more classes between bantamweight and featherweight. Nobody wants anyone wiping the floor with the competition, but how much we want an athlete’s performance tied to their training effort is up for debate. (If it was really about rewarding hard work we could skip the head to head and just give awards for most hours hard training.)

But I’m still back here wondering who is allowed to enter the conversation if men are just telling women what to do, women are rolling over for the trans lobby, and the presence of trans people stifles the debate.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Here you go (took me about 1 min to find it). The quote is from a tweet:

"For the record, I knocked two out. One woman's skull was fractured, the other not. And just so you know, I enjoyed it. See, I love smacking up TEFS (sic) in the cage who talk transphobic nonsense. It's bliss!"


https://www.sickchirpse.com/fallon-fox-jk-rowling-enjoy-fracture-woman-skull/

Seems pretty clear to she's talking specifically about her opponent, who she characterizes as a TERF. I see no general threat to injure generic TERFs outside the ring.

She’s using all that attention as a good publicity tactic – go ahead and ride that free publicity train as long as you can. I’ll gladly derail that s#*t quickly so the world can go back to giving the publicity and notice to the female fighters who earn it. It just pisses me off that Women’s MMA has fought to get away from being seen as a side show.

Quote from her opponent before the match. Talked ****, got hit. I'm sure it was quite the ego boost for Fallon.

https://transgriot.blogspot.com/2014/08/fallon-has-new-fight-with-wannabee.html

 

[Joe Random]

Yes we do. As women, we qualify for all of the same things that cisgender women do.

Although in the case of car insurance, I saw mine increase quite a bit after I changed my gender markers, so it didn't help me any. And there will always be crooks that try to game the system like Ziggurat brought up. Trying to slander us by bringing them up like he did won't work.

Next you'll be showing me just where in the **** anyone tried to 'slander' you, yes?

 

[Manger Douse]

https://talksport.com/sport/mma/513279/ufc-london-molly-mccann-gruesome-injury-win/

Broken limbs and head injuries are common as dirt in combat sports.

An amateur fighter in the UK died from a TBI



https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-hampshire-50468140#:~:text=Amateur%20kickboxer%20Sai%20Aletaha%20dies%20after%20Southampton%20match%20injury,-18%20November%202019&text=An%20amateur%20kickboxer%20has%20died,in%20Southampton%20on%20Saturday%20night.

“I’ve fought a lot of women and have never felt the strength that I felt in a fight as I did that night. I can’t answer whether it’s because she was born a man or not because I’m not a doctor. I can only say, I’ve never felt so overpowered ever in my life and I am an abnormally strong female in my own right… I still disagree with Fox fighting. Any other job or career I say have a go at it, but when it comes to a combat sport I think it just isn’t fair.” – Tamika Brents

 

[TurkeysGhost]

“I’ve fought a lot of women and have never felt the strength that I felt in a fight as I did that night. I can’t answer whether it’s because she was born a man or not because I’m not a doctor. I can only say, I’ve never felt so overpowered ever in my life and I am an abnormally strong female in my own right… I still disagree with Fox fighting. Any other job or career I say have a go at it, but when it comes to a combat sport I think it just isn’t fair.” – Tamika Brents

Anecdotes from sore losers, the real science.

 

[Boudicca90]

Next you'll be showing me just where in the **** anyone tried to 'slander' you, yes?

Maybe slander wasn't the right word, and I wasn't accusing you of anything, just Ziggurat. Trying to use a man that tried to misuse the system to his advantage (and hopefully he is prosecuted, since you have to sign a legal document stating you are the gender you say you are) to smear transpeople in general as dishonest or descriptive is something I see a lot from transphobes.

 

[Manger Douse]

Anecdotes from sore losers, the real science.

You've ignored the real science Ziggurat has brought up

 

[Boudicca90]

Yes, sport is a problem, nobody much minds the occasional unusually superhuman athlete with a significant biological advantage, but a whole class of them starts to turn heads. There are potential workarounds but obviously none that will please all comers, since a level playing field is really more or less a conceit for all sport in the first place. We just want it kind of level ish so there can be competition, but we don’t want to keep finding more classes between bantamweight and featherweight. Nobody wants anyone wiping the floor with the competition, but how much we want an athlete’s performance tied to their training effort is up for debate. (If it was really about rewarding hard work we could skip the head to head and just give awards for most hours hard training.)

But I’m still back here wondering who is allowed to enter the conversation if men are just telling women what to do, women are rolling over for the trans lobby, and the presence of trans people stifles the debate.

The point is that there is no "whole class of people" who will dominate everything. It's not happening now, and it's not going to happen.

And the fact that you feel my very presence is stifling debate is absurd. Unless it's because you want to talk crap about us behind our backs and feel you can't be as open now.

 

[Manger Douse]

The point is that there is no "whole class of people" who will dominate everything. It's not happening now, and it's not going to happen.

There is and they're called men