Passenger killed by air marshall

[Mycroft]

No, they remained slaves in the US. Independence, but not for them.

Independence from England, even for slaves. The DoI never claimed to grant all kinds of independence, just one, and that one applied to slaves as well.

Are you claiming that because slaves remainted slaves that atheists were still subjects of England?

You tell me.

Okay, "creator" can be non-supernatural.

 

[CFLarsen]

Independence from England, even for slaves. The DoI never claimed to grant all kinds of independence, just one, and that one applied to slaves as well.

It's not much of an independence, is it? Despite the "all men are created equal" part.

Are you claiming that because slaves remainted slaves that atheists were still subjects of England?

No.

Okay, "creator" can be non-supernatural.

And I disagree. While I have provided evidence, what have you provided? Your opinion.

 

[CFLarsen]

Slavery is still legal in the USA?!

It was at the time.

 

[Grammatron]

And I disagree. While I have provided evidence, what have you provided? Your opinion.

You may think so, but you are wrong on this one. You have not shown that "...their creator..." reffers to 'the' or even 'a' supernatural being.

 

[Jocko]

It's not much of an independence, is it? Despite the "all men are created equal" part.

And I disagree. While I have provided evidence, what have you provided? Your opinion.

You seem to think your deliberate obstinace, willful misreading and begging the question are the same thing as debate. If you don't like the answers, perhaps you should think twice about your questions.

 

[Freakshow]

You may think so, but you are wrong on this one.

But...but... No! It cannot be! IT CAN'T!!!!!!

"The black night always triumphs! I AM INVINCIBLE!!!"

 

[epepke]

Is there a possible thread that CFLarsen cannot or will not derail?

 

[Jocko]

Is there a possible thread that CFLarsen cannot or will not derail?

Sure, just bring up Denmark's monarchy and/or state-sanctioned religion. He vanishes instantly. I recommend working those points into all OP's from now on to assure a pleasant, fruitful, Claus-free discussion.

 

[Grammatron]

Sure, just bring up Denmark's monarchy and/or state-sanctioned religion. He vanishes instantly. I recommend working those points into all OP's from now on to assure a pleasant, fruitful, Claus-free discussion.

You mean like "The right to owns guns in USA is similar to the right of Danes to be subject to a monarchy and a state supported religion?"

 

[Ed]

It's not much of an independence, is it? Despite the "all men are created equal" part.



No.



And I disagree. While I have provided evidence, what have you provided? Your opinion.

The edict was issued in the name of his father King Christian VII by Fredrik VI (who was then Regent because of his father's mental illness) on 16 March 1792 and came into effect on 1 January 1803. Denmark thus bears the honor of being the first established sovereign state to prohibit the slave trade (but not slavery: that honor rests with Vermont, which abolished slavery in 1777).
http://www.anti-slaverysociety.addr.com/hda-danmark.htm

Slavery still a little whoopsie:

Denmark is primarily a destination and transit country for women and children trafficked from Central and Eastern Europe, the Baltic states, and the former Soviet Union (particularly Ukraine, Moldova, and Russia) for the purpose of sexual exploitation. Victims are transported through Denmark to other European countries. An international organization identified ethnic Roma children from Romania as having likely been trafficked to Denmark for involuntary servitude in the form of forced begging and petty crimes. Police reported an increased number of Nigerian women in prostitution in Denmark, some of whom are believed to have been trafficked.
http://gvnet.com/humantrafficking/Denmark.htm

In January 1792, the King issued a royal ordinance declaring the end of Danish slave exports as of 1 January 1803. Thus Denmark-Norway was the first European nation to abolish its export slave trade. However, that reputation was tainted by the export of some 30,000 Africans during the last decade of legal commerce in slaves. Moreover, illicit slave trading continued from Danish forts, particularly Fort Fredensborg, until the 1830s and - 1840s.


Slavery in the Danish West Indian colonies was abolished after a rebellion on July 3, 1848. In 1917 the three West Indian islands were sold to USA and renamed the U.S. Virgin Islands.
http://www.unesco.no/fredensborg/danish-norwegian_slave_trade/

Yup. Enlightened.

 

[Ed]

You mean like "The right to owns guns in USA is similar to the right of Danes to be subject to a monarchy and a state supported religion?"

or their use of "serf" as opposed to "slave"

 

[Jocko]

You mean like "The right to owns guns in USA is similar to the right of Danes to be subject to a monarchy and a state supported religion?"

Exactly. Poof, no more background noise. It's nothing short of magical.

 

[Grammatron]

Exactly. Poof, no more background noise. It's nothing short of magical.

You mean supernatural of course

 

[Jocko]

or their use of "serf" as opposed to "slave"

No, no, no... nothing so abstract. how about...

Article 1
All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.

Violation: All human beings are not "born free and equal in dignity and rights" in Denmark", due to the fact that children born to unnaturalised immigrants are not automatically entitled to Danish citizenship, in contrast to the children born of Danish citizens.

Now, that's Article 1 of the UN declaration of human rights. Note the use of the term "endowed"; one must be "endowed" by another, right? So how come Claus isn't having a conniption about the suggestion of a higher - even supernatural - source of rights in this document?

Now, about slavery:

Article 4
No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms.

Comment: Considered from traditional interpretations of the term slavery, Denmark is not in violation of article 4 of the UN's human rights declaration. However, forced and compulsory labour is included in the same paragraph as slavery in the European Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms, which emphasises: "No one shall be required to perform forced or compulsory labour." (Article 4, part. 2), in regard to which the policy of forced activation as practiced by Danish municipalities can hardly fail to be in conflict.

Looks like the Danes get away on a technicality. One could really parse the living hell out of that one, if one had a mind to.

How about torture? Got it!

Article 5
No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment

Violation: Denmark cannot claim itself free of the practice of psychological torture or "degrading treatment or punishment". Imprisonment in isolation for indefinite periods is equated with torture by a number of international organisations, including the United Nations. Approximately 1,500 people are imprisoned in this manner every year in Denmark, with almost a third suffering permanent psychological damage as a result.

Golly. Well, if you have a monarchy, I guess you gotta have the dungeons.

Now, speaking of slavery and gay rights (two of Claus' favorites), here's this charming little ditty:

Article 7
All are equal before the law and are entitled without any discrimination to equal protection of the law. All are entitled to equal protection against any discrimination in violation of this Declaration and against any incitement to such discrimination.

Violation: All are not "equal before the law" in Denmark, and all are not "entitled to equal protection against any discrimination": 1) Criminal immigrants (embracing so-called, first-, second-, and third-generation immigrants) can, despite extended or life-long residence in the country, be sentenced to deportation as an extra sentence on top of the normal prison sentence; 2) Muslim women, who for cultural or religious reasons choose to wear head-scarves, can be refused employment as a result; 3) homosexual women do not have equality of status with heterosexual women with regard to state offers of artificial fertilisation; 4) employers can demand clean criminal records and reject former criminals, even in the case of a minor infraction without any significance for the job in question, while infringements of the Working Environment Act and marketing laws are deliberately not registered on criminal records, thereby differentiating between former criminals, as well as between former criminals and non-criminals.

Unequal treatment of gays! Oh my, looks like Dentopia is collapsing before our very eyes.

Remember how Claus said someone in America could be locked up forever for no reason, with no recourse? I think he missed by abotu 4,000 miles.

Article 9
No one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest, detention or exile.

Violation: There is no longer any substance to the claim that, "no one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest" in Denmark. In the draft legislation on "head coverings" (Bill no. L 196, § 134 b), which was adopted in May of 2000 and according to which the wearing of all forms of head covering under demonstrations and gatherings etc. shall be prohibited by law, it states: "Any person, who in connection with a public meeting, gathering, demonstration or the like, has his or her face entirely or partly covered by a hood, mask, body paint or the like, in a manner that is conducive to the hindrance of identification, is liable to a fine, simple detention or imprisonment for up to six months. Part 2: Similar sanctions can be applied to any person, who in a public place, is in possession of articles which can be construed as serving the purpose of covering his or her face as laid out in part 1." The prohibition's very wide ranging possibilities for intervention into the legal right of congregation and demonstration can easily result in the law being applied in an arbitrary fashion.

Holy cow! Completely arbitrary law enforcement! I guess that's why they exercise a de facto racist immigration policy:

More than half of all asylum seekers are routinely imprisoned on their arrival in Denmark. According to Amnesty International, asylum seekers are imprisoned by a "conveyor belt" system, (source: Amnesty, April 1997). Kim Kjær, lawyer, expert in refugee legislation and researcher with the Danish Center for Human Rights, comments: "Asylum seekers are imprisoned on a routine basis. It is simply a case of conveyor belt decisions, and it is deeply problematic in relation to human rights."

See these and a dozen other pieces of dirty Danish laundry at: http://www.faklen.dk/en/doc/hr.shtml#violations

 

[epepke]

Exactly. Poof, no more background noise. It's nothing short of magical.

OK. Now that that's been settled, can we get back to the thread?

 

[Jocko]

OK. Now that that's been settled, can we get back to the thread?

Sure, who's stopping you?

 

[CFLarsen]

Slavery still a little whoopsie:

That's hardly slavery. That's illegal aliens being abused by criminals.

Yup. Enlightened.

Yes, actually. Compare to when slavery was abolished in the US.

 

[Manny]

Sure, who's stopping you?

11 pages of dreck?

 

[Ed]

Or the question of why people are dieing to leave...

we won't get into alcoholism ...

All is not well in River City my friends.....

 

[Jocko]

Or the question of why people are dieing to leave...

I'm wondering how many of those people had to sit next to Claus on a train at some point.