Riots, looting, vandalism, etc.

Yeah, it's just a complete coincidence that Black Lives Matter was founded by trained Marxists.

Did they go to a Chinese Maoist training camp to learn how to be commies?

No doubt there are several vibrant strains of leftism in the current protest movements. Doesn't mean it's foreign.
 
Portland PD has fired so much tear gas in the streets there are now questions about the environment impact. Eventually the gas (actually an aerosol) settles and makes its way into the sewer system, which eventually leads to the Willamette River.

When asked about what all these chemicals are doing to the environment, state and city agencies say there’s nowhere to look to for answers, because no other U.S. city has ever been subjected to such a sustained barrage of tear gas.

https://www.opb.org/article/2020/07/31/tear-gas-environmental-impact-portland/

PPB, blazing new trails in the sustained use of chemical agents.
 
Hold up a second. The question that was asked was who benefits. It wasn't who's behind it. There's a difference. The fact that China benefits is really hard to dispute, and is independent of their actions or involvement. I don't think there's any serious doubt that China benefits. Almost anything that hurts us helps them.

It's a separate question, one which was not asked and I did not previously address, whether or not they are involved. But the fact that they have motive should certainly give one pause to consider the possibility. As to the apparatus, there are lots of channels available to do so (for example, facebook groups and ads, etc). They need not have murdered anyone in order to help amplify and radicalize the response to those events. And in fact, the CCP's public response to the death of George Floyd is a textbook example of communist propaganda efforts to paint the US as irredeemably racist (which is ironic given their own racism). Now, even if China is surreptitiously encouraging unrest, that wouldn't mean that there would be none absent China. But given that they have the motive, and the means to encourage unrest are within reach of any state actor, it would be foolish to simply dismiss the possibility.

I will also note that China is a primary source of fentanyl, which is causing serious drug abuse problems here in the US and was involved in the death of George Floyd. So no, actually, China doesn't have their hands clean in his death.

Wow. “I’m not a conspiracy theorist!” indignation to full-blown conspiracy theory in just three paragraphs.
 
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Wow. “I’m not a conspiracy theorist!” indignation to full-blown conspiracy theory in just three paragraphs.

You're familiar with Russia's facebook activities in regards to the 2016 election, are you not? Why is it a stretch to think China could be doing the same here? Is it your contention that this is beyond their capabilities? Is it your contention that China would not be willing to stoop so low? What exactly makes you think this is a stretch?
 
You're familiar with Russia's facebook activities in regards to the 2016 election, are you not? Why is it a stretch to think China could be doing the same here? Is it your contention that this is beyond their capabilities? Is it your contention that China would not be willing to stoop so low? What exactly makes you think this is a stretch?

Cool. Now do the part where you alleged China was involved in George Floyd’s murder.
 
I’m confused about the underlying apparatus of this conspiracy theory.

Did China or Russia have Derek Chauvin murder George Floyd?

Nice strawman. Russia fans the flames of existing divides in America: They have fronted facebook groups that are pro-gun and anti-gun, pro-immigration and anti-immigration, pro Black Lives Matter and pro Blue Lives Matter. They don't have an ideology to push, only to stir the hornet's nest and to poke the bear. The material in Mueller's report isn't "conspiracy theory"
 
Nice strawman. Russia fans the flames of existing divides in America: They have fronted facebook groups that are pro-gun and anti-gun, pro-immigration and anti-immigration, pro Black Lives Matter and pro Blue Lives Matter. They don't have an ideology to push, only to stir the hornet's nest and to poke the bear. The material in Mueller's report isn't "conspiracy theory"

Is there any evidence that such foreign propaganda efforts are playing any significant role in the nationwide protests in response to police brutality?

Take the Kenosha riots of the last few days. When did the Ruskies get involved? A cop shot a man 8 times in the back, and a bystander's video was passed around, followed by a local riot.

I'm not seeing a foreign hand in this, or any of the other spontaneous protests that erupt after American police brutalize a member of the public.
 
The man who broke journalist Robert Evans finger with a baton over the weekend during the Portland fascist rally has been identified as Travis Taylor, a member of the Proud Boys hate group/street gang.

https://twitter.com/bellingcat/status/1298236193793089536

The quick identification was possible thanks to extensive prior documentation of known fascists by online antifascist activists. Taylor's distinctive tattoos were easy to match to multiple photos of him attending previous Proud Boy events.

Robert Evans claims to be in contact with his attorney regarding this matter.

https://twitter.com/IwriteOK/status/1298269325300654080
 
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Is there any evidence that such foreign propaganda efforts are playing any significant role in the nationwide protests in response to police brutality?

Take the Kenosha riots of the last few days. When did the Ruskies get involved? A cop shot a man 8 times in the back, and a bystander's video was passed around, followed by a local riot.

I'm not seeing a foreign hand in this, or any of the other spontaneous protests that erupt after American police brutalize a member of the public.

I don't know of any and agree that these riots are organic events but I also believe that the Russians and others will do everything they can to capitalize on our existing divisions.
 
Is there any evidence that such foreign propaganda efforts are playing any significant role in the nationwide protests in response to police brutality?

Take the Kenosha riots of the last few days. When did the Ruskies get involved? A cop shot a man 8 times in the back, and a bystander's video was passed around, followed by a local riot.

I'm not seeing a foreign hand in this, or any of the other spontaneous protests that erupt after American police brutalize a member of the public.

Clearly the cop is a Russian agent.
 
Premise 1: Cops murder some random black guy in the US
Premise 2: People protest.
Conclusion: It's a Chinese conspiracy.:rolleyes:

No... that's not the progression. More like:

1: Cops murder a black guy already in custody and it's completely abhorrent
2: People protest
3: People continue to protest and people start setting things on fire
4: Cops respond to arson and looting by telling people to go home
5: People object and get combative with police
6: Police overreact and use LTL out of proportion
7: People protest some more
8: Police mostly withdraw, try to defuse
9: People in some specific areas will not stop protesting and there continues to be violence, arson, and looting
10: Media (both organized and social) continue to present stories as "cops are bad protesters are peaceful" and downplay or censor reports that show violent actors involved that aren't law enforcement
11: Media (both organized and social) continuously frame the issue as partisan, assigning every interaction as "right wing" or "left wing" narratives
11: Rinse and repeat for three months
...
Start to question: Who benefits from keeping this level of unrest going? Who benefits from driving a partisan schism? If this erupts into civil war, who gains?
 
My inner CT'ist lays it at Russias' door.
Their initial reported incursions into US social media manipulation focused on race divisions.
It has long been obvious that sowing that divisiveness was Americas "Achilles heel".

https://racism.org/articles/law-and-justice/6712-russian-election-interference

I wouldn't be surprised if it's being amplified by Russia, but I also suspect that there was a fair amount of social engineering last election from other foreign powers as well. They just didn't get focused on, because the baby-boomer appeal of the cold-war dynamic was just too juicy a peach for the media to focus on anything else.
 
It's only going to get worse if Biden wins the election. Racist cops will continue to murder or brutalize people and there will be protests and riots in response, meanwhile brain-poisoned libs are going to say it's Russia or China or some other conspiracy. I fully expect #Resistance libs to start accusing street demonstrators as being puppets of Putin or MAGA instigators before all of this is over.
Sometimes I just can't get a read on you at all. This wasn't a direction I would have expected from you. Are you generally more of an anarchist than a liberal?

The problems of violent and racist cops is a 100% homegrown, American problem. Anyone looking abroad for the causes of the recent unrest is fooling themselves.

Yes, the problem itself is home-grown. But it's entirely possible for the problem to be amplified and fueled by external actors taking advantage of an existing problem.
 
No... that's not the progression. More like:

1: Cops murder a black guy already in custody and it's completely abhorrent
2: People protest
3: People continue to protest and people start setting things on fire
4: Cops respond to arson and looting by telling people to go home
5: People object and get combative with police
6: Police overreact and use LTL out of proportion
7: People protest some more
8: Police mostly withdraw, try to defuse
9: People in some specific areas will not stop protesting and there continues to be violence, arson, and looting
10: Media (both organized and social) continue to present stories as "cops are bad protesters are peaceful" and downplay or censor reports that show violent actors involved that aren't law enforcement
11: Media (both organized and social) continuously frame the issue as partisan, assigning every interaction as "right wing" or "left wing" narratives
11: Rinse and repeat for three months
...
Start to question: Who benefits from keeping this level of unrest going? Who benefits from driving a partisan schism? If this erupts into civil war, who gains?
By the logic that asserts that Breonna Taylor was not shot by a foreign agent- and that therefore there is no evidence that foreign actors are attempting to influence internal strife, one would also have to come to the conclusion that since no votes were actually changed by Russian agents in 2016 there is no evidence that they interfered in our election.
 
I’m confused about the underlying apparatus of this conspiracy theory.

Did China or Russia have Derek Chauvin murder George Floyd?

No, of course not. But it would be incredibly easy for a foreign actor to exploit that event by amplifying and multiplying an underlying weakness of the US.

As a way oversimplified analogy, imagine two middle-schoolers having an argument. The argument itself is an independent event. But the braying of "fight! fight! fight!" from uninvolved bystanders moves that argument well beyond disagreement and into the realm of physical confrontation. If those bystanders continue to play on and amplify the initial disagreement day in and day out, it keeps the issue always at the forefront, and disallows progress toward an amelioration. The longer it remains a focus issue, the more those bystanders will feel compelled to take a side, widening the divide, and creating tribes backing one or the other.

It only takes a couple of motivated onlookers to drive a mob.
 
Sometimes I just can't get a read on you at all. This wasn't a direction I would have expected from you. Are you generally more of an anarchist than a liberal?

Check the composition of the the local government of these big cities where cops are killing people. You won't find many Republicans. Tear Gas Ted Wheeler is a Democrat. Ferguson birthed the BLM movement, and that was under Obama's administration.

Trump has undoubtedly made things worse by deploying feds, but the root issue is not a Republican problem. It's an American problem, and the liberals have no meaningful solutions. Liberals want to paint "black lives matter" on the roads and then give the cops more money. They have no solutions.

yes, I'm a leftist, not a lib. I'm not an anarchist, probably more a mewling dem-soc type.



Yes, the problem itself is home-grown. But it's entirely possible for the problem to be amplified and fueled by external actors taking advantage of an existing problem.

Perhaps, but that's a side show. America's enemies have been pointing out the hypocrisy of the "free world" mistreatment of its black population for over a hundred years. While it may be a useful barb at the hands of malicious foreign powers, it's 100% a home-grown problem that needs a domestic focused solution.

Foreign powers have very little power to drive this issue. It's all in the hands of the cops and the communities they police.
 
No... that's not the progression. More like:

1: Cops murder a black guy already in custody and it's completely abhorrent
2: People protest
3: People continue to protest and people start setting things on fire

You left off 2a. Cops beat, injure and teargas peaceful protesters, slash tires and so forth, of course this has nothing to do with any of the people setting things on fire.. But no one wants to get in the way of their fun. That old guy in Buffalo had it coming. Just like everyone who lost an eye. I mean there is nothing more funny to a cop that shooting someone in the face with a baton round.
 

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