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Trump is not going to accept election results Rough and ugly transition ahead.

xterra said:
Only if the order is legal. I do understand that this is a judgement call, in at least some cases.


But telling a military unit to, for instance, arrest or shoot all or only members of a recognized political party (Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, even American Nazi) is clearly not a legal order.
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Neither is torturing detainees, yet they were fine with that. This theory of disobeying illegal orders has a distinct lack of cases where it happens.
 
psionl0 said:
If you are going to whine again about the malapportionment feature then try not to be so misleading. You falsely imply that a vote in Wyoming is worth 800 times as much as a vote in California.

The fact is that Wyoming returns 3 EC votes at 16,667 voters per EC vote while California returns 57 EC votes at 701,754 voters per EC vote. So a vote in Wyoming is worth 42 times (not 800) times as much as a vote in California.
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OK, it's a bit of a reach. But let's say this. A simple Republican majority...even a single vote majority in Wyoming...since they have only a single Congressperson is worth as much as every single citizen of California voting for Democrats. So the number is 290,000 votes in Wyoming in a contingent election is worth as much as 40 million voters in California.

That's about 143 to 1. Yeah, that's fair.:rolleyes:
 
Again "Trump is not going to accept the results of the election" is not the same thing as saying we're on a direct collision course with either a coup or a Civil War.

As already alluded to Trump passive aggressively declaring himself some sort of "True leader" in exile and spending the rest of his sad life fanning the conspiracy theories and inciting violence is much more likely.
 
JoeMorgue said:
As already alluded to Trump passive aggressively declaring himself some sort of "True leader" in exile and spending the rest of his sad life fanning the conspiracy theories and inciting violence is much more likely.
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Russia is going to be one of the few countries to recognise Trump's government in exile as the legitimate US leadership. ;)
 
JoeMorgue said:
Again "Trump is not going to accept the results of the election" is not the same thing as saying we're on a direct collision course with either a coup or a Civil War.

As already alluded to Trump passive aggressively declaring himself some sort of "True leader" in exile and spending the rest of his sad life fanning the conspiracy theories and inciting violence is much more likely.
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I don't see civil war. I do see a potential for localized civil unrest and lone-wolf actors committing acts of violence along ideological lines. We'll probably see the Gravy SEALS do some armed parades and try to fan the flames the way they did during the BLM protests.
 
shuttlt said:
So Trump is under the impression that not everybody there was a neo-Nazi. I don't know. Maybe he's right, and maybe he's wrong. You can believe what you like, but I honestly think the Democrats would be better off if they lent a little less hard on the facts. When Biden says "No, he called all those folks who walked out of that" it just isn't true.
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Trump would need to be right in order for Biden to be wrong.

In order for Trump to be right, we need evidence that there were people not affiliated with Neo-Nazis and white supremacists at the Neo-Nazi/white supremacist rally.

Do you have that evidence?

Or will you continue to pretend that Trump’s babbling double-speak is somehow the equivalent of a fact?
 
Shadowdweller said:
I am concerned that the OP may well be correct. I suspect that Trump may have done something that will put him in prison if it ever comes out and knows it. Without "presidential immunity" and/or his people in charge of the executive and/or senate.
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What if he resigns so Pence can pardon him before the term ends?
 
I think the public passion for "Going after Trump" after he's out of office is a much bigger unknown variable then we're assuming.

Trump's base of supporters obviously won't want it, and I don't know how many of the other ~60% of Americans are going to really care after he's out of office and can no longer do (direct) damage.

That doesn't mean we can't, won't, or shouldn't do it, just a factor.
 
JoeMorgue said:
As already alluded to Trump passive aggressively declaring himself some sort of "True leader" in exile and spending the rest of his sad life fanning the conspiracy theories and inciting violence is much more likely.
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Until the day he's found on his bathroom floor, his phone in one hand and a "hamberder" in the other. His final Tweet another insistence that "covfefe" has a hidden meaning.
 
Mojo said:
What if he resigns so Pence can pardon him before the term ends?
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He may not need to. There are some Constitutional scholars who argue the President can pardon himself. I don't agree with that argument however.
 
JoeMorgue said:
I think the public passion for "Going after Trump" after he's out of office is a much bigger unknown variable then we're assuming.

Trump's base of supporters obviously won't want it, and I don't know how many of the other ~60% of Americans are going to really care after he's out of office and can no longer do (direct) damage.

That doesn't mean we can't, won't, or shouldn't do it, just a factor.
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I've gone back and forth on this having gone through it with Nixon. I don't want to divide the country any more than it is.

I'm less interested in exacting punishment against Trump as I am interested in a full understanding of the wrongdoing of this administration. Not that he doesn't deserve to be lined up against a wall and executed for treasonous acts. Just that it would be counter-productive to the nation.

Barr on the other hand should be excoriated in any and every way possible. What I don't know yet if what Barr has done has been actually illegal. Corrupt, no doubt, but I haven't evaluated what he laws he has broken.
 
johnny karate said:
Trump would need to be right in order for Biden to be wrong.

In order for Trump to be right, we need evidence that there were people not affiliated with Neo-Nazis and white supremacists at the Neo-Nazi/white supremacist rally.

Do you have that evidence?

Or will you continue to pretend that Trump’s babbling double-speak is somehow the equivalent of a fact?
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Exactly, you think he was wrong and that everybody at the rally were neo-Nazis. You can't prove he was wrong, you just think it.

Turning that into claiming he called neo-Nazi's "very fine people" is not what you would do if misleading people was something you were concerned about. If you or Biden were trying to avoid misleading people, you'd say that he had claimed that some of the marchers at Unite the Right weren't neo-Nazis since that is the point you disagree with him on.

This is part of why Trump is immune to accusations of that he is a liar. Nobody cares if a bunch of manipulative liars on one side calls out somebody for telling 10000 stupid, obvious, boastful untruths. The Democrats could have taken the high ground on this, not pushed the facts so hard and I'd care a whole lot more the ******** Trump comes out with.
 
shuttlt said:
OK. So it's specifically whether or not he will make a concession speech you are concerned about rather than whether he/the Republican's accept the result? I thought you were worried about some sort of a coup, or violence, or some corrupt way of on-doing a fair result. The distinction between the different ways one undoes an election result one doesn't like doesn't seem very important to me.
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Nah, the guy is just not wanting to face up of the skeletal closet.
 
rockysmith76 said:
Yes, they did, in their limited version of the court of public opinion. That same silly mindset that assumed that Hillary was a shoe in. We see that happening with Biden to. Now get out there actually vote for the guy, or by mail but if there's dem complacency again, thats on them completely. COMPLETELY.
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The entire country turning into a troll farm backed dictatorship is not a valid punishment for the Dems running a bad candidate.

"I voted to kicked in the balls because your offer was only a massage, not a massage with a happy ending" is a childish, psychopathic mentality.
 
JoeMorgue said:
The entire country turning into a troll farm backed dictatorship is not a valid punishment for the Dems running a bad candidate.

"I voted to kicked in the balls because your offer was only a massage, not a massage with a happy ending" is a childish, psychopathic mentality.
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They had their hand in the mess.
 
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