The Charlottesville event was a heavily publicized neo-Nazi rally. Participants marched through the streets with swastika banners, weapons and torches chanting "Jews Will Not Replace Us!" If your best defense of Trump is that he was too stupid to understand the facts, that doesn't help him much.
Trump is not going to accept election results Rough and ugly transition ahead.
- Thread starter acbytesla
- Start date
The Charlottesville event was a heavily publicized neo-Nazi rally. Participants marched through the streets with swastika banners, weapons and torches chanting "Jews Will Not Replace Us!" If your best defense of Trump is that he was too stupid to understand the facts, that doesn't help him much.
marting
Illuminator
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If the election isn't clear it's likely Trump will take the following path which is specified in the Constitution.
1. Dispute the election in enough states that Biden will not receive enough electoral votes to win. To win the candidate must receive an absolute majority of all electors, currently 270. If enough states are in play when the House convenes the first week in Jan. then it's possible Biden will not have an absolute majority of electors. If that happens then the next step is:
1. The House chooses amongst the 3 candidates for president with the most electors. The house votes based on caucusing of the members of each state where each state gets 1 vote. Since there are more republican states than democratic states it's very likely Trump would be elected even though the House has a majority of democratic members and even if Biden has more electoral votes than Trump.
It could get very interesting.
1. Dispute the election in enough states that Biden will not receive enough electoral votes to win. To win the candidate must receive an absolute majority of all electors, currently 270. If enough states are in play when the House convenes the first week in Jan. then it's possible Biden will not have an absolute majority of electors. If that happens then the next step is:
1. The House chooses amongst the 3 candidates for president with the most electors. The house votes based on caucusing of the members of each state where each state gets 1 vote. Since there are more republican states than democratic states it's very likely Trump would be elected even though the House has a majority of democratic members and even if Biden has more electoral votes than Trump.
It could get very interesting.
Roger Ramjets
Philosopher
Who cares what they think? A fact doesn't become opinion just because Deplorables deny it.
"His only concern is how it effects him and his." is an opinion. Clearly one can convince oneself that it's true, but I very much doubt it is provable to anybody who isn't already disposed to believe it anyway.
I don't think the "Earth is flat/round" is a good analogy. First you have the country nearly evenly split (let's not argue whether we are talking about likely voters, or whether 40% counts as nearly even) with Trump, while it really isn't anything like that with flat Earth. Something different feels like it's going on. With flat Earth, you can collapse the claim into sub claims and consequences that can be discussed and you can get down to the root of the disagreement (aren't most flat earthers just LARPing?). I'm not sure that you can do this with the claim "His only concern is how it effects him and his."
I didn't realize that, but it's true. So a third-party or write-in candidate could be among the three if he got even one electoral vote, which he could conceivably get from a "faithless" elector or in a state that allocates electors by Congressional district, and the House could choose him/her. That's an interesting additional complication.
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
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IMV, Not caring about the lies is close to as bad as believing his diarrhea of lies. It says one doesn't value truth. But back to our earlier interchanges . You said multiple times to my characterization of Trump lying in his business dealings as well as lying as both a candidate and as President that it was only my opinion. My statement wasn't my opinion, it was fact. So you're either being dishonest now or you were then.
No, what's true is when given an opportunity to stand up against racism, Trump equivocated and played ******* word games. Trump was doing everything in his power not to do the right thing. Trump KNEW or should have known that the Unite the Right rally was organized by neo-NAZI groups. Now I think Trump is ignorant of many things but not for a second do I believe Trump was unaware of that. So I'm with Biden, Trump was dog whistling to his many racist supporters. Not that you're one of those.
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
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It's in the 12 Amendment. Another way the nation could get screwed again. 50,000 voters in Wyoming will be worth as much as 40 million in California.
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Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
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This crap belongs in the CT forum. Seriously.This article seems relevant:
Where the System May Break
If the link to that article is paywalled, Vox has similar coverage of the same "war game". How to avert a post-election nightmare
From that article:
Essentially, mess with the electoral college. I can see that happening. A state with a GOP governor goes narrowly Democratic? - then Governor declares all mail-in votes suspect and invalidates them. Orders election workers to look more closely for spoiled ballots - starting in Dem districts. Its not about creating fake votes, that's too hard. But it is easy to throw away valid votes.
There have even been scenarios proposed where a single state sends two conflicting delegations to the EC - one from a governor, one from the legislature. And the legal remedies to that are not all that clear cut.
I keep thinking of Texas. Many Republicans love Texas, they imagine a state filled with well-armed big men named "Hoss" and "Bubba", who drive big trucks. They feel that Texas is pure GOP territory, I think they can't imagine Texas voting Dem - but it could happen. (Personally, I don't think it will, not yet, but for the sake of argument we'll imagine it does as some models suggest is possible.) One could imagine the state GOP machine kicking into overdrive to ensure that the EC from Texas stays Republican - it has to. It is their state, their Republican state, no election can change that. So they mess with the EC somehow.
If it goes to the Supreme Court, expect the lame duck Senate to try to impeach RBG by claiming she is no longer mentally competent. Regardless of how the election goes, Mitch McConnell will still be the Senate Majority leader until inauguration day. I he thinks he needs to get rid of Dem SC Justice, he'll try, he's shown himself to be partisan to the point of immorality.
Remember that if anything happens, it will all be couched in very legalistic terminology. It won't be Trump crying and whining and throwing a tantrum. It will be lawyers citing laws, citing the constitution as reasons for throwing away votes, for sending EC delegations that don't match a given state's popular vote. Lots of legal cites of state laws and constitutions are they relate to appointing EC delegates and determining how those delegates vote.
If things go really, really south (which I don't actually expect), then one would expect Trump (or Pence) to cite this or that portion of the Constitution as the justification for suspending certain other parts of the Constitution and inconvenient laws. Look at most third-world coups, that's how they often do it, citing the legal national charter as the justification for suspending that charter. For example, they could make claims about threats to the Second Amendment as justification for this or that - enough rabid militia and Qanon gun nuts would accept any justification if it is coached as a defense of the 2nd.
Don't expect the military to do squat. They'll mostly sit it out, a surprising number of civil wars feature a national military watching from the sidelines until things are more advanced. Some military people may take action, but the big assets will just sit and watch.
I mostly don't think any of that will actually happen - but I would be much happier if I felt more certain of that. Things are pretty bad. We'll have a nice clear winner and peaceful inauguration of the winner. I think.
This would require all these governors be Trump sycophant and I don't see the evidence they are. Maybe what's his face in Florida, but even then he'd have to be so stupid to stick his neck out to keep a mentally ill POTUS in place for what? What's Trump done for him? Free rounds of golf and a free night at Mar-a-lago?
Which governors do you think enjoy some benefits from Trump's favors?
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This crap belongs in the CT forum. Seriously.
This would require all these governors be Trump sycophant and I don't see the evidence they are. Maybe what's his face in Florida, but even then he'd have to be so stupid to stick his neck out to keep a mentally ill POTUS in place for what? What's Trump done for him? Free rounds of golf and a free night at Mar-a-lago?
Which governors do you think enjoy some benefits from Trump's favors?
'All these governers?'. It could be as few as one governor to really throw a wrench into the works. Or a legislature, going against a governor.
As the 'war game' showed, the system is pretty dependant upon the politicians respecting the norms and traditions. If they don't play by the rules, things could go haywire.
^This.
Minoosh
Penultimate Amazing
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Maybe we can get UN observers to monitor the election - you know, like they do in countries that are new democracies, coming out of authoritarian rule.
I wonder if anyone would have standing to challenge Trump in court, calling for a gag order on his continuous complaints about mail-in ballots and fraudulent elections. He is clearly trying to undermine the integrity of the process and intimidate states into backing off mail-in vote plans. This is sabotage and aims to throw the results into dispute. There's got to be a way to shut this guy up. Or maybe give him enough rope to hang himself. Metaphorically.
Fingers crossed.
Don't worry. The stock market has gone from 20,000 to 30,000. I can't think
of any president who had that kind of performance being thrown out of office.
See… No worries. I for one will welcome president elect Kanye West.
Silly Green Monkey
Cowardly Lurking in the Shadows of Greatness
I think we've had some observers, or rumors of observers, which right-wingers see as foreign interference. It's weird that those put in place specifically to prevent interference, are accused of it---by the people who really wanted to interfere and are mad they don't get to.
This is why it's important for everyone who values democracy to vote even in a state where the outcome is predetermined. The margin matters.
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
If Biden wins the election, then at noon Eastern Standard Time on Wednesday, January 20, Trump's presidency ends and Biden's will begin. The Secret Service will no longer be working for Trump, they will be working for Biden.
I will expect a team of SSAs to escort Trump out of the White House, and if he refuses to go, I expect them to drag him out kicking and screaming, and at gunpoint if necessary.
I will expect a team of SSAs to escort Trump out of the White House, and if he refuses to go, I expect them to drag him out kicking and screaming, and at gunpoint if necessary.
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Skeptic Ginger
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Given Trump's tendency to act like a petulant child, I expect him to leave the White House early, head down to Mar-a-Lago sometime after the election.
He might try to write some Ex Orders during the lame-duck, passing out money to friends and relatives.
We should have a prediction thread.
The Great Zaganza
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Not truthful compared to Trump?
Because one side isn't always correct, you pick the side that is almost always wrong?
I hope you never need medical advice, or you'll be screwed.
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thaiboxerken
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That's so sweet. You think Trump would follow Constitutional law.