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Trump is not going to accept election results Rough and ugly transition ahead.

shuttlt said:
Since nobody has a magic wand, everybody in the great game is limited to what they have it in their power to get away with. It wasn't possible to directly overturn the election result. Democrats have pissed and moaned about how Trump cheated to win for close to 4 years now. They undo it to the extent that they are able.
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No, pissing and moaning happens with every election. it's too weak to reach the level of overturning/undoing an election. The absolute closest anyone has come to that level is the winner of the 2000 elections taking his case to the Supreme Court and them awarding the election to second place (only as close because of massive voter infringement in second place's brother's state). What has been DONE (not whined about, not twittered about, not joked about), DONE to overturn/undo the election?
 
shuttlt said:
I'm not sure it is a post fact mode of thinking. I believe in facts too. The difficulty is that almost all the time, there isn't one single fact, or even a handful of facts, that you can hold in front of you, verify to some level of confidence, and know the truth of what is going on. There are too many facts, too many of the facts are interconnected and hard to be sure of, and we interpret those facts based on the stories our sides believe.

Plus, typically we don't get facts.... we get opinion with "facts" sprinkled through them like that meme of the man sprinkling salt.

I don't know who you rely on. Maybe you basically trust the Democrats to be truthful. Maybe you trust CNN or the Washington Post. I used to as well, but then a few things happened, and I started to check up on them and came to the conclusion that the truth wasn't at the top of their list of priorities on all topics. If you assume they are honestly doing their best to give you balanced facts, then there is no point in arguing it.

To counteract the downer of all that. Almost nobody actually does any digging. Plenty of primary sources are out there. That used to be what the forum was all about.


I'm not tribally aligned. I was on the left. I started to doubt, and started to check the homework, so to speak, of my side. I don't think of myself as right wing, and I'd certainly dispute that I'm tribal right wing. I might be wrong, but I'm not wrong for tribal reasons.
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:bs::dl:

I'm sorry, I had to pick myself off the floor after reading that farcical post.

Frankly, I don't believe you.

While no source of media can be trusted and many simply repeat what some other media source has said, there are certain facts about Trump which are pretty well self evident. The first is he is totally untethered to the truth. He says whatever he thinks will help him make the sale and the accuracy of what he says is irrelevant. He doesnt care who it will hurt. His only concern is how it effects him and his. He lied constantly during his entire business career, he lied constantly throughout his campaign and he lied constantly throughout his Presidency.

BTW, I read the full Mueler report and am about 40 percent through the Senate Intelligence 1000 page report.
 
acbytesla said:
The problem is that POTUS is CINC. He gives an order someone is supposed to carry it out.
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Only if the order is legal. I do understand that this is a judgement call, in at least some cases.


But telling a military unit to, for instance, arrest or shoot all or only members of a recognized political party (Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, even American Nazi) is clearly not a legal order.


Just as shooting all members of a union, or all Postal Service employees is not a legal order.



Remember Lt. William Calley?
 
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Safe-Keeper said:
Yes, I suppose that's what they were alluding to, but either way I don't feel that counts. Removing Trump would just have put Pence in charge. Not exactly the coup the trumpkins tried to make it out to be.
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There were people after the 2008 election who believed that proving President Obama was ineligible would magically reverse the outcome of the election and make McCain President. I have no doubt that sort of person would also believe that Trump's conviction would have made Hillary President.
 
xterra said:
Only if the order is legal. I do understand that this is a judgement call, in at least some cases.


But telling a military unit to, for instance, arrest or shoot all members of a recognized political party (Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, even American Nazi) is clearly not a legal order.
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I understand that and yet throughout history soldiers carried out illegal orders. I give you William Calley and Oliver North as two off the top of my head.

Now in al, fairness, this is not the same thing. I don't know if Trump thinks he can carry it off. I'm predicting POTUS continuing to cause chaos. First, with his rhetoric and second somehow getting members of his government to aid that. He floated postponing the election and while that didn't go over well for him, he then turned to mount an all out assault on voting by mail.

But I'll say this regarding him using the military. That seems unlikely to me. I think he's counting on the court helping him out. That said, he needs another vote on the court cause I don't think he can count on Roberts.

What did you do, add Calley?
 
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acbytesla said:
there are certain facts about Trump which are pretty well self evident.
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Probably.

acbytesla said:
The first is he is totally untethered to the truth.
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This is an opinion rather than a fact.

acbytesla said:
He says whatever he thinks will help him make the sale and the accuracy of what he says is irrelevant.
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This is an opinion rather than a fact.

acbytesla said:
He doesnt care who it will hurt.
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This is an opinion rather than a fact.

acbytesla said:
His only concern is how it effects him and his.
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This is an opinion rather than a fact.

acbytesla said:
He lied constantly during his entire business career,
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I suspect this is an opinion rather than a fact. It is also looks a lot like a hyperbolic exaggeration of the "this is the greatest X ever" variety that, were Trump to say it, many people would call it a lie. It doesn't matter anyway, since his appeal isn't based on him being a choir boy who never took advantage of a sucker.

acbytesla said:
he lied constantly throughout his campaign and he lied constantly throughout his Presidency.
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Trump supporters look at Democrat attacks on Trump and frequently see them as being dishonest - like claiming he said neo-Nazi's were good people for example (I really don't care whether you think he said that, they think he didn't). Telling me that I should support your guy, who I believe just lied about my guy, because you tell me my guy is a liar is not a persuasive argument.

acbytesla said:
BTW, I read the full Mueler report and am about 40 percent through the Senate Intelligence 1000 page report.
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Good for you. You are one of the few. I tip my hat to you. I just skimmed the Carter Page section of the senate report and wasn't particularly blown away. Have you found a smoking gun anywhere in it, or is it more like what I said with lots of small interconnected facts that on their own don't prove anything?
 
Stacyhs said:
Yes, I got that almost immediately after I hit the post button. I was connecting it to his original statement about Dems and contesting the 2016 election (which never happened). My mistake.
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I knew what you meant. I just wanted to preempt certain posters.
 
The Atheist said:
I'd want to see some evidence that he is compos mentis right now, because I think you're over-rating his sanity.

He is that stupid, and he is that delusional.
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Keep an eye on that 'god talks to me' stuff. You'll see if he's truly deteriorating.

As for evidence, he has a lifetime of it, boasting some bull crap then claiming he was joking and/or saying other people said it and so on.
 
shuttlt said:
Since nobody has a magic wand, everybody in the great game is limited to what they have it in their power to get away with. It wasn't possible to directly overturn the election result. Democrats have pissed and moaned about how Trump cheated to win for close to 4 years now. They undo it to the extent that they are able.
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Pissing and moaning about the fact that Russia meddled in our election by spreading misinformation to aid Trump in no way undoes the election. Your arrow misses the bullseye. Hell, your arrow misses the entire target.
 
Whatever Trump does try to do, I hope it's so criminal and fails so badly that he is found guilty of treason and ends up on the neck end of a rope.

I think it's more likely that on the morning of January 20, 2021, he gets on a plane to a country that has no extradition treaty with the U.S., and spends the rest of his life on Twitter riling up his base of idiots.
 
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Skeptic Ginger said:
Keep an eye on that 'god talks to me' stuff.
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God's Trump's homie. He keeps walking up to him saying, sir, how do you know so much about the Bible? I divinely inspired the thing and I don't know half as much as you do! You've done more for me and my faith than any other president in history! Etc.
 
Stacyhs said:
Pissing and moaning about the fact that Russia meddled in our election by spreading misinformation to aid Trump in no way undoes the election.
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I agree. It is hardly accepting the result though. The typical claim is very obviously and very clearly that the various investigations and impeachments were the democrats looking for ways to undo the election result. Had they been in a position to mount an immediate legal challenge, in the manner of hanging chads, are we claiming they wouldn't have done?

Stacyhs said:
Your arrow misses the bullseye. Hell, your arrow misses the entire target.
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Your reading comprehension failed you.
 
Trebuchet said:
Trump doesn't need the military to overturn the election, he just needs John Roberts.
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If you've been paying attention you might have noticed this is not something Roberts would do. He's big on preserving the institutions of US government.
 
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