Sweden's liberal pandemic strategy questioned as Stockholm death toll mounts
- Thread starter applecorped
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Clutch Cargo
Muse
You are not the first making that recommendation. However, the Coronavirus scam prevents us from breaking the 2-metre distance rule.
Clutch Cargo
Muse
"Sweden's liberal pandemic strategy questioned ... has raised questions about Sweden’s decision to fight the outbreak without resorting to the lockdowns that have left much of Europe at a standstill."
I find this exceptionally interesting because in Sweden distances are faithfully kept by citizens in restaurants, buses and trains. That might not seem like very much but in Denmark, they don't seem to be bothered by keeping their distance at all. In fact, Danish Rail has made it obligatory to hold a reserved seat (rather than just take what you can find) yet you are booked next to and face-to-face with strangers.
In other words .... you are compelled to sit facing someone!
And about one in fifty Danes is wearing a face mask.
I find this exceptionally interesting because in Sweden distances are faithfully kept by citizens in restaurants, buses and trains. That might not seem like very much but in Denmark, they don't seem to be bothered by keeping their distance at all. In fact, Danish Rail has made it obligatory to hold a reserved seat (rather than just take what you can find) yet you are booked next to and face-to-face with strangers.
In other words .... you are compelled to sit facing someone!
And about one in fifty Danes is wearing a face mask.
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Yet another ... colorful post:
Yes, I have have pointed out several times that, until very recently, hardly anybody in Denmark wore face masks in shops and on public transport, but then they started doing so:
Her skal du fremover bære mundbind (TV2.dk, Aug. 15, 2020)
This is where you have to wear face masks - beginning Aug. 22.
This follows after face masks became mandatory on public transport in first Aarhus and then Silkeborg, Favrskov, Odder, Skanderborg og Horsens (TRM.dk, Aug. 11, 2020)
Danskerne har været gode til at holde afstand. Nu er der basis for yderligere genåbning, mener statsminister Mette Frederiksen. (PolicyWatch, May 6, 2020)
The Danes have been good at social distancing. Now the foundation has been laid for reopening further, PM Mette Frederiksen thinks.
I am looking forward to more posts about the difference between Denmark and Sweden.
"Sweden's liberal pandemic strategy questioned ... has raised questions about Sweden’s decision to fight the outbreak without resorting to the lockdowns that have left much of Europe at a standstill."
I find this exceptionally interesting because in Sweden distances are faithfully kept by citizens in restaurants, buses and trains. That might not seem like very much but in Denmark, they don't seem to be bothered by keeping their distance at all. In fact, Danish Rail has made it obligatory to hold a reserved seat (rather than just take what you can find) yet you are booked next to and face-to-face with strangers.
In other words .... you are compelled to sit facing someone!
And about one in fifty Danes is wearing a face mask.
Yes, I have have pointed out several times that, until very recently, hardly anybody in Denmark wore face masks in shops and on public transport, but then they started doing so:
Her skal du fremover bære mundbind (TV2.dk, Aug. 15, 2020)
This is where you have to wear face masks - beginning Aug. 22.
This follows after face masks became mandatory on public transport in first Aarhus and then Silkeborg, Favrskov, Odder, Skanderborg og Horsens (TRM.dk, Aug. 11, 2020)
Danskerne har været gode til at holde afstand. Nu er der basis for yderligere genåbning, mener statsminister Mette Frederiksen. (PolicyWatch, May 6, 2020)
The Danes have been good at social distancing. Now the foundation has been laid for reopening further, PM Mette Frederiksen thinks.
I am looking forward to more posts about the difference between Denmark and Sweden.
Maybe you could also explain to us the difference between compelled and compelled. Then I can explain to you how reservations on public transport work and what makes them so important during the pandemic, but you can start here: Information i forbindelse med oronavirus (DSB.dk, Aug. 14, 2020)
Childlike Empress
Banned
Are you reading the thread? It's all about the numbers if "no action", namely no insane lockdown was taken, and the numbers are 572 per million.
Clutch Cargo
Muse
Obligatory:
required by a legal, moral, or other rule; compulsory.
Require:
specify as compulsory
Compel:
force or oblige (someone) to do something.
Assign:
allocate. designate.
(seats not chosen by traveller)
Facing seats:
Seats (passengers) facing one another
Side NOTE: I have been using Danish rail system since 50 years before you were born.
Recently? That is untrue. I was in Denmark last week. No masks.
RedStapler
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And tomorrow on: "Cts dodge questions and pretend to be smarter than scientists"
Childlike Empress
Banned
One of the key people in German Corona-Lockdown-Skepticism is Dr. Bodo Schiffmann, who was just a doctor fighting vertigo before he came to fame solely because of his Corona Youtube-Videos. Lately he has tried to share the content in (his not very good) English, and this is his first attempt. Maybe relevant because the motto of the next mega demonstration in Berlin is "Berlin invites Europe". Enjoy:
I find this exceptionally interesting because in Sweden distances are faithfully kept by citizens in restaurants, buses and trains. That might not seem like very much but in Denmark, they don't seem to be bothered by keeping their distance at all. In fact, Danish Rail has made it obligatory to hold a reserved seat (rather than just take what you can find) yet you are booked next to and face-to-face with strangers.
In other words .... you are compelled to sit facing someone!
And about one in fifty Danes is wearing a face mask.
I agree. I use Danish public transport in the Copenhagen area every day, and people do not keep distance at all, buses are overcrowded, and in a full bus, you might only find two people wearing masks.
However, that may change. Last Thursday I was passed by by a bus, and it might be because it was crowded (and because it only runs once per hour, I was forced to walk for half an hour to the station). And in the train I would say that 1 in 10 was now using masks, which might be because it is now possible to buy them in the shops.
As of Monday, masks are compulsory, so the number of people wearing masks will of course go up to 100% - if they can get hold of masks.
In April, people could still be seen keeping distance when waiting to get into a shop, or waiting to pay, but by June, this was ignored by all, except for the old people like me. Young people act in every way as if COVID-19 does not exist, and they hug and kiss their friends.
I have not been in Sweden since last summer, so I cannot know how the Swedes behave. Today, I traveled through Germany to Austria, and in Germany everybody use masks inside trains and shops. But people also do not keep distance, and they got angry when I refused to let them into a crowded lift.
I have only been in Austria for a few hours, but it is very evident that people are more relaxed about the masks. Some people here seem to think that it is OK if they just hold the mask in their hand, and more people than in Germany had their nose free of the masks. The next days will tell if this was typical.
Clutch Cargo
Muse
Yes, I agree.
Sweden and Denmark are very similar. Very few people are wearing masks. Cafés and restaurants are open. People not taking it very seriously. The only difference is at Kastrup where it is necessary to wear a mask.
I was also in Germany a couple of weeks ago. I was assigned a reserved seat on the train from Fredericia facing strangers without mask at the four-seats but when the train reached Flensburg EVERYONE put on a mask. Nearly everyone wearing a face mask in Germany. When entering a shop or café or konditori you MUST have a face mask and you must have it on, covering both mouth and nose. When my mask wasn’t covering my nose the employees told me to correct it. Also, at restaurants and cafés you must fill in a form with your name, address, phone number and your signature.
Yes, we will see what will be typical in the days, weeks, and months to come.
Clutch Cargo
Muse
Thank you, C.E.
Intelligent, non-dramatic, presentations impress me more than raised voices and sensationalist accusations.
Apropos, his english is gut genug.
In a larger format:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZo...XHjapliKTgaTnLGbQ6Y4-lbtr2B1dngQoQjD7i8R2siJc
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Childlike Empress
Banned
Thank you, C.E.
Intelligent, non-dramatic, presentations impress me more than raised voices and sensationalist accusations.
Apropos, his english is gut genug.
In a larger format:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZo...XHjapliKTgaTnLGbQ6Y4-lbtr2B1dngQoQjD7i8R2siJc
There's a funny synchronicity in that "schwindel" has a double meaning in German where what the doctor is treating is vertigo, but schwindel also means flim-flam, fraud, so Doctor Schiffmann came to our help with his "Schwindelambulanz", the ambulance to treat schwindel. A hero.
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Childlike Empress
Banned
The date of the "Berlin invites Europe" mega demonstration is the 29th of August. Last time there was a controversy about the number of participants as dann faithfully parroted to us, but this time there may be the number of people present the police told the organizers last time - and yes, the police told wildly exaggerated numbers to the organizers while it happened - 800,000 - and then told the media wildly understated - 20,000 - numbers after the event. Join if you can.
Clutch Cargo
Muse
Yes, I understood it.
Can't trust the media any more.
I would like to but I think finding a zimmer could be very difficult and large crowds give me claustrophobia and make me dizzy and I may have to go home in a Schwindelambulanz.
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No action is not the same as no lockdown. And lockdowns have been very sensible in most cases and not insane.
You didn't get it, but never mind.
Congratulations! Not many people live to be 116.
You don't understand anything at all, do you? I wrote (and quoted) specifically where in Denmark masks are now mandatory. Are you pretending that you went there, and didn't see people wearings face masks?
RedStapler
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Yeah, Bigfoot was giving a speech, praising your honesty and intelligence.
Clutch Cargo
Muse
Lockdown is useless according to the report made by Dr. Bodo Schiffmann. If you actually watch and listen you will learn something.
I gave you a list comprehensive FACTS. Can you dispute them? No.
Whatever. You trying to tell me how DSB runs its reservation seating system is like telling an Army sergeant how to tie his boots. DSB claims that the obligatory (but free of charge) seat reservation is because of the Corona virus but they assign you (not allow you any choice) a specific seat next to and facing other passengers .... and no one is wearing a face mask.
Did you not understand what I wrote? I am telling you that no one is using it
No pretense. I am telling you that I go there often. I am so close that I can see Denmark from my window. People ARE NOT wearing face masks.
The problem with that argument is that Swedes have been using it from the beginning of this pandemic - and from the beginning of this thread. In Sweden even their miserable scientific authorities use it. And at this point Trump is digging up his own insane 'scientists', the demon-sperm lady, for instance, retweeting their messages. A few days ago, he found Scott Atlas to replace Birx and Fauci at press briefings:
Trump adds coronavirus adviser who echoes his unscientific claims (CNN, Aug. 12, 2020)
It is always possible to find a weirdo with a medical degree. And there are even more weirdos with medical degrees who have lost them because of their weird claims and practices. Appealing to scientific authority can often be abused by appealing to false scientific authority. Think Andrew Wakefield. Think this local guy, Søren Ventegodt, who is now dealing in pandemic obfuscation:
Korrekt behandling at kysse hendes venusbjerg (DR.dk, April 17, 2012)
Kissing her mons pubis is correct treatment
Søren Ventegodt har med sin nye bog om corona rejst den endelige skamstøtte over sig selv (SundhedspolitiskTidsskrift, Aug. 5, 2020)
With his new book about corona, Søren Ventegodt has erected the final monument of disgrace to himself
There is no way around science education for everybody. We can't all become medical doctors, engineers or cosmologists, but we should be taught enough science to the extent where we are able to distinguish between true and false scientific authorities. Childlike Empress's answer is an example of why this is necessary.
The behaviour of Swedes and Danes may be similar, but as far as I remember, there was a huge difference in what was locked down, and what was not. And this difference resulted in a huge difference in the number of deaths in the two countries. I have no idea what the current limit on gatherings is in Sweden today, but I note that in Denmark the number of infected has gone up after the limitations were raised.
Yes, it is taken more seriously in Germany. However, until a few weeks ago, people were not seated opposite each other in the trains, and it was forbidden to stand up. I can only guess that these rules were abandoned because more people were getting back to work, and the capacity of the trains remained limited.
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