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Sweden's liberal pandemic strategy questioned as Stockholm death toll mounts

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steenkh said:
The granularity is not good enough to show details below country level. There are loads and loads of parameters you can fiddle with, and I am not sure that the link I posted contains the settings I chose.
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I don't know either, but I like that version: You start out with a totally contaminated world, and then the virus slowly disappears, magically, like Trump would say. :)

Did you use the “play” button?
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No, I wasn't aware of till now. It's obviously not meant to be watched without the animation, but the animation makes it even more confusing.

Lines ending in the middle of the sea are most probably remnants of the animated simulation.
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You're right. With the animation, I didn't observe any of the transmissions ending in the middle of the ocean. :)
 
With the discussions about school openings in the USA and elsewhere, this might be interesting:

Lærere og elever sendt hjem flere steder i landet på grund af corona-udbrud (TV2.dk, Aug. 13, 2020)
Teachers and students sent home in many parts of the country because of corona outbreaks

In Sweden, where schools stayed open and staff and students were hardly ever tested before the summer holidays, many still insist that children and schools don't really contribute to spreading the disease, so I guess schools and teachers in Denmark, where the level of testing is very high, are just particularly susceptible and contagious ...
It can't be because schools in this country don't take precautions in the current situation. They do!
 
dann said:
'k.
(You may not have been active at the time, but this was the standard reaction from a former member of the forum when he was offended by counter-arguments and couldn't come up with any sensible answer to them.)
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f'.
(that explains why you use it but does not explain why you are speading false information)
 
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dann said:
If you had pointed out a single piece of false information, your accusation might have been taken seriously.
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fyi'

I said: Denmark is doing the same thing as Sweden is doing. You said, no.
I said: Germany has taken extreme measures. You said no.

I was recently in both Denmark and Germany and you lied. Your credibility is zero.
 
Clutch Cargo said:
fyi'

I said: Denmark is doing the same thing as Sweden is doing. You said, no.
I said: Germany has taken extreme measures. You said no.

I was recently in both Denmark and Germany and you lied. Your credibility is zero.
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This is as ridiculous as Trump blaming the Fake News Media whenever his own lies are exposed for what they are.
Dream on.
 
It's pretty obvious who has lost all credibility. It's pathetic.
"I said: Denmark is doing the same thing as Sweden is doing. You said, no."
I still say no.

Friday:
Coronavirus - countries (Worldometers, Aug. 14, 2020)
Deaths per million (Total deaths) New cases Serious/Critical
Sweden: 572 (5,783) 442* 31 *according to SVT.se. Denmark: 107 (621) 165 1 Finland: 60 (333) 17 0
Norway: 48 (261*) 36 2 *Four deaths! That’s pretty unusual for Norway.
Iceland: 29 (10) 7 1
Iceland has 112 active cases, Faroe Islands 114, New Zealand 49.
The Faroe Islands have 900+ in quarantine, 1,068 awaiting results from tests made on Aug. 13.
 
5 grunde til at økonomer er optimistiske trods værste fald i dansk økonomi (TV2.dk, Aug. 14, 2020)
5 reasons why economists are optimistic in spite of the Danish economy's worst recession ever - The Nordic and Baltic countries seem to be doing fine, with Finland doing best and Sweden worst.

Finland uppmanar nu till munskydd ] (SVT.se, Aug. 14, 2020)
Now Finland recommends face masks - Whenever social distancing isn't possible

Fortsatt ökning av Covid-19 in Scania (SVT.se, Aug. 14, 2020)
Cases continue to increase in Scania - 35 more daily cases this week; 25 last week

Nya norska råden: Bär munskydd på fullsatta bussar (SVT.se, Aug. 14, 2020)
New Norwegian recommendations: Wear face masks on crowded busses

Bare fem prosent av alle påviste tilfeller i Europa så langt er barn. Men i studier hvor man tester andelen av en befolkning som har antistoffer mot coronaviruset er barn derimot marginalt underrepresentert.
Dette kan muligens forklares med at langt færre barn testes for Covid-19 på grunn av at barn langt oftere har mildere symptomer eller er asymptomatiske.
Nakstad viser også til de siste funnene fra den amerikanske barnelegeforeningen (AAP). Av alle påviste tilfeller i USA, er hele ni prosent barn. I siste halvdel av måneden ble hele 97 000 påvist coronavirus.
Nytt syn på barnesmitte - Norske helsemyndigheter mener nå at barn med symptomer på Covid-19 smitter like mye som voksne (Dagbladet.no, Aug. 14, 2020)
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Only five percent of all registered cases in Europe so far are children. But in studies testing the percentage of a population for antibodies, children are marginally underrepresented.
The explanation may be that much fewer children are tested for Covid-19 because children far more often have milder symptoms or are asymptomatic.
Nakstad also refers to the latest results from the American Association of Pediatricians (AAP). Of all registered cases in the USA, nine percent are children. In the second half of the month 97,000 cases were registered.
New view on children’s transmission of infections – Norwegian health authorities now think that children with symptoms of Covid-19 are as contagious as adults
 
dann said:
It's pretty obvious who has lost all credibility. It's pathetic.
"I said: Denmark is doing the same thing as Sweden is doing. You said, no."
I still say no.

Friday:
Coronavirus - countries (Worldometers, Aug. 14, 2020)
Deaths per million (Total deaths) New cases Serious/Critical
Sweden: 572 (5,783) 442* 31 *according to SVT.se. Denmark: 107 (621) 165 1 Finland: 60 (333) 17 0
Norway: 48 (261*) 36 2 *Four deaths! That’s pretty unusual for Norway.
Iceland: 29 (10) 7 1
Iceland has 112 active cases, Faroe Islands 114, New Zealand 49.
The Faroe Islands have 900+ in quarantine, 1,068 awaiting results from tests made on Aug. 13.
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Now you are lying about what I said. You are doing the same thing another poster always did when he got caught in his lies ..... lie again to try covering his previous lie. You have zero credibility.
 
Dream on! I quoted you! It's hard to lie about that.

Sweden was one of the few European countries not to impose a compulsory lockdown. Its unusual strategy for tackling the coronavirus outbreak has been both hailed as a success and condemned as a failure. So which is it?
Those who regard the strategy as a success claim it reduced the economic impact, but it isn't clear that it did. What is clear is that so far Sweden has had a more protracted outbreak with far more deaths per capita than its neighbours.
Is Sweden a Cautionary Tale or a Success Story? (RealClearScience, Aug. 14, 2020)
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I think the truth is that all this Danes hating on Swedes, Scots hating on English aside, the numbers, just the plain numbers whether they are twice the amount per capita of another country, or half, have shown that this "killer virus" was a false alarm.

Once you've realized that (and I understand that this is a very difficult thing to do for pseudo-skeptics who define themselves by being great at parroting the "common wisdom"), the whole thread collapses into a black hole.

An even uglier problem than the "killer virus" remains.
 
Childlike Empress said:
I think the truth is that all this Danes hating on Swedes, Scots hating on English aside, the numbers, just the plain numbers whether they are twice the amount per capita of another country, or half, have shown that this "killer virus" was a false alarm.
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Please show me that maths. Show me how the projections of the number of deaths if no action was taken were wrong, and hence a false alarm. Show me how over three quarters of a million deaths and counting despite all the actions that have been taken supports that view.
 
Childlike Empress said:
I think the truth is that all this Danes hating on Swedes, Scots hating on English aside, the numbers, just the plain numbers whether they are twice the amount per capita of another country, or half, have shown that this "killer virus" was a false alarm.

Once you've realized that (and I understand that this is a very difficult thing to do for pseudo-skeptics who define themselves by being great at parroting the "common wisdom"), the whole thread collapses into a black hole.

An even uglier problem than the "killer virus" remains.
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The truth is that Danes aren't "hating on" Swedes. They are concerned about Sweden's failed pandemic strategy as are Sweden's other neighboring countries because it has killed a large number of Swedes and forced old people to find ways of dealing with it themselves to the extent that they're able to.
The truth is that Sweden's death toll per million isn't "twice the amount per capita of another country". It's 5-6 times higher than Denmark's, almost 10 times higher than Finland's and 12 times higher than Norway's.
And the truth is that your ”millions” never showed up:
Die Polizei spricht von rund 20.000 Personen, die in Berlin gegen die Corona-Maßnahmen protestierten. Unterstützer behaupten, es seien mehr als eine Million gewesen - und präsentieren falsche Bilder.
Fake News über Zahl der Teilnehmenden (ARD Faktenfinder, Aug. 2, 2020)
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The police talk about approximately 20,000 people protesting in Berlin against the corona measures. Supporters claim that it was more than a million – and show false photos.
Fake news about the number of protesters

Hundreds gather in Stuttgart to protest coronavirus restrictions in Germany (DW, Aug. 9, 2020)

Gegen Corona-Maßnahmen: 2800 Menschen demonstrieren in Dortmund (RND, Aug. 9, 2020)

And in Flensburg there appeared to be about 100 – many of them counter protesters.

If you want to see demonstrations, you can also go to Minsk where they appear to have plenty of them right now:
Thousands flood Belarus capital as election protests grow (AP, Aug. 14, 2020)
They appear to be very unhappy with the guy who ”has declared "corona" a neurosis that is not happening in his country.”

And for some reason, scientists remain adamant about this 'neurosis':
Scientists say the coronavirus is at least as deadly as the 1918 flu pandemic (CNBC, Aug. 13-14, 2020)


ETA: I forgot about the numbers for tests per million, but not even those come close to your idea of numbers that are "twice the amount per capita of another country, or half": Sweden 90,733; Denmark 322,670.
 
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Tegnell raderade mejl från myndigheter och experter - ”Kan vara tjänstefel och lagbrott – beror på innehållet” (Aftonbladet.se, Aug. 14, 2020)
Tegnell deleted emails from authorities and experts. "May be misconduct and crime – it depends on the contents"

Smittskyddsläkaren: ”Mycket allvarlig smittspridning på västkusten (SVT.se, Aug. 14, 2020)
Doctor responsible for the prevention of infectious diseases: ”Very serios spread of infections on the Westcoast.” The virus is now widespread among the locals in the community, too. The doctor says that she feared something like this might happen when the travel restrictions in Sweden were suspended.

Läkarens kritik efter ökad spridning på Västkusten Expressen.se, Aug. 15, 2020)
The doctor's criticism after increased spread on the Westcoast

The testing in East Jutland (the Aarhus area) is pretty hopeless right now. People have to wait for one to two weeks - maybe because because some to the testing facilities have been moved to Aarhus, I don't know:
I Randers skal man ifølge avisen vente i 15 dage, før der er en ledig tid, i Horsens er det 14 dage, Skanderborg 12, Holstebro 8, mens man i Skive og Grenaa skal vente i en uge. (TV2.dk, Aug. 15, 2020)
 
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