That isn't the majority of cases though, including when Hubbard did it. A hostile atmosphere doesn't lead to real damages to the people involved. It's the equivalent of an unhealthy argument.
L. Ron Hubbard made racist comments.
- Thread starter mattobrien85
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That isn't the majority of cases though, including when Hubbard did it. A hostile atmosphere doesn't lead to real damages to the people involved. It's the equivalent of an unhealthy argument.
Belz...
Fiend God
How can you say that unless you have some sort of statistical understanding of the impact of racist comments?
Of course it does. It's the kind of things that can see people passed over for promotions, fired, denied tenancy, etc. That's harm.
I can say it because you don't need statistics for inductive logic. To cause racial discrimination, the racist comments would need to be
made publicly,
be taken seriously,
have the person who takes them seriously be in a position of power,
for them to act on it,
for there to be no tangible resistance from those who don't support racial discrimination.
So most racist comments don't lead to anywhere. The real harm arises when both the listener who wants to act on it gains a position of power and tangible resistance doesn't exist.
You seem to be talking about discrimination here, not the atmosphere.
arthwollipot
Limerick Purist
Racist language is discrimination.
Belz...
Fiend God
No but you need to connect your theory to reality. Logic alone doesn't necessarily give you true conclusions.
Allowing for all that, how does this change anything? Racist comments ARE made publicly, ARE taken seriously by many, and are ACTED upon by some against those with little power to defend themselves.
Again, how does it follow that it's most rather than a significant minority? How about indirect consequences, etc.?
They are extremely closely related, no?
This goes into bigger discussion of whether everything needs to be proven materially to be true, that I don't care to make right now.
It changes whether or not most racist comments cause discrimination in some way, because those are a small number of them. The bigger point is that there's going to be subtlety with different scenarios.
Like what?
It could be, if it reaches a certain point.
Allen773
Graduate Poster
Shocking.
angrysoba
Philosophile
Is it not that Scientology works more like a pyramid scheme? I don't think Tom Cruise is stupid, for example. But as with every pyramid, the top dogs milk the fish lower on the totem pole until they're completely fleeced.
Mojo
Mostly harmless
That’s down to the workings of the atomic theory. As Brian O’Nolan wrote, “people who spend most of their natural lives riding iron bicycles over the rocky roadsteads of this parish get their personalities mixed up with the personalities of their bicycle as a result of the interchanging of the atoms of each of them”.
Clutch Cargo
Muse
I speak to my wife on a daily basis without getting a response so I might try speaking to my hat.
I find your metaphors ... overwhelming. A totem pole that's also a pyramid, populated by dogs and woolly, milkable fish
Clutch Cargo
Muse
"Watch yo' mouth!"
Ridiculously untrue. A hostile atmosphere, at work, at home, or in the broader public arena negatively affects people’s lives in very real ways. Hurting someone emotionally is often much more traumatic and longer lasting than a physical assault. Imagine that type of emotional assault constantly occurring day after day. Imagine what being constantly demeaned and insulted does to one’s ego and expectations in all matters involved in getting through a day.
Further the hostile atmosphere inevitably seeps into the brains of those controlling very concrete aspects of life: hiring, promotions, grading in schools, access to housing, etc. i can’t think of any society with a racist atmosphere where that racism did not also manifest by limiting the opportunities available to the minority population, by how they were treated in business interactions, at school, at work, by the police, etc.
Gord_in_Toronto
Penultimate Amazing
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theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
I don't think it's a pyramid scheme as such. Not every exploitative cult is set up as a pyramid. Most of them have only two or three tiers: A tier of elites who benefit from the donations and other income generated by the cult. And a tier of regular worshippers who benefit from a (false) sense of meaning or belonging or whatever, who provide much of the income the top tier enjoys.
I think in the case of Scientology, there is a multi-pronged business plan. One prong is the fleecing of masses of easily-influenced people. These people are manipulated into leading miserable lives, giving their money and labor to the cult without recompense other than an empty belief that this is a good thing.
The other prong is the fleecing of wealthy celebrities. This is somewhat trickier. You (the COS) don't want to take over Tom Cruise's life. You want him to continue being a happy, productive movie star for as long as possible. You want him to keep feeling really good about donating a chunk of his vast wealth to the cult. So you treat him and other celebrities very differently from the average dupe.
You figure out what's missing from his life, that you can offer him. You take his good will and cash donations to the bank. You don't induct him into the scheme. You don't send him out to generate income by exploiting another lower layer of the pyramid. You just tell him to keep doing what he's good at, and keep taking care of him as best you can.
arthwollipot
Limerick Purist
In the case of scientology specifically, the dividing line appears to be whether you are in the Sea Org or not.
Loss Leader
I would save the receptionist., Moderator
What is this thread? Is anyone disagreeing that Scientology is: a) false; b) as close to evil as things can become; and c) do I really need a third thing?
The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat
The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat
Clutch Cargo
Muse
Well, you did leave out the most important attributes:
a). Relieving you of your life-savings.
b). Cutting all ties with everyone in your life.
c). Answering the question about the meaning of life with some monster from outer space from whence we all derive.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenu#:~:text=Xenu (/ˈziːn,killed them with hydrogen bombs.
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Gord_in_Toronto
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2006
- Messages
- 26,486
Surely there are three levels of membership:
1. Members of the Sea Org who are treated like slaves.
2. Ordinary sheep in the process (sic) of being fleeced on their way to the never successful effort to become Clear.
3. The elite who have bought into LRon's crap and who have societal status and wealth to make them useful idiots in supporting the upper echelons (Miscavige and his cronies).