Cont: The all-new "US Politics and coronavirus" thread pt. 2

[Aridas]

Hmm. Just because it's a little bit relevant and because I recall a couple people on ISF bringing up kids' mental health as a reason to reopen schools, I thought that a statement from this by a school counselor is worth adding to that conversation.

I didn’t want to do this but some of y’all need to hear it.

Stop invalidating teachers feelings about their safety. Stop using child abuse, food insecurity, and mental health to do it. That is some serious misdirection.

I work for the largest district in Iowa. A majority-minority district. I have a degree in social work, a Masters in counseling, and work in an elementary school. Let me tell you about what I do when I’m at work:

I sit and listen to kids tell me about this abuse you’re talking about. Physical abuse. Sexual abuse. Mental abuse. I have heard it all, and way more times than you want to know. Some kids are telling me for the first time. The first time they’ve told anyone. Other times are “Mrs. Hogan it’s happening again.” I make multiple mandatory reports a month to a DHS that is underfunded and whose social workers have overwhelming caseloads. Before we left in March I was doing suicide assessments nearly weekly. I have taken food and clothes from my house to bring it to students. I have to be the one that calls a Mom to tell her that her child has slits all over her wrists.

And I still won’t let you use this as a reason to force teachers and students back when it’s unsafe. THIS IS NOT ON TEACHERS.

The same politicians (hey, Reynolds) that want to hurriedly reopen schools under dangerous conditions are the same ones who always want to cut down and mismanage social services, mental health services, and their funding. They’re the same politicians who have FAILED the kids in my office. Do you want us to be a community school? Cause we are already trying and it sure would be a lot easier if we had the funding to do it.

Where’s all this talk when it’s not a pandemic? You guys know what often happens to these kids and families then? I sit with a mom after school and call every single homeless shelter in the area to find something for her and there is nothing. I listen to a mom cry after the mental health unit tells her there’s no bed for her child in crisis. And when she asks them and me what to do now, there’s no answer for her. Iowa is one of the worst states for mental health services in the country.

Do not come at teachers and schools. Their job is to educate. Mine is to help these kids and families and I’ll do home visits if I can, I will do my best to connect them with the resources they need and I know my colleagues will too.

The real problem is there are not adequate resources, even if we are in school. Not even close. COME AT YOUR GOVERNMENT FOR THAT. And do it when the pandemic is over too.

 

[Aridas]

And... Here's something that hit me a bit hard. Not that it had much in the way of revelations, but...

What Does America’s Coronavirus Response Look Like Abroad? | NYT Opinion

It's youtube and, well... perhaps it's helpful for perspective when people like me have been stuck in this nightmare for so long that it is indeed feeling like a new normal, however much it absolutely should not be such.

I suppose that Trump may indeed be beginning to have turned lies into truth in some of the most horrible ways. While the world has laughed at the US a lot (because of Trump), pity and horror seems to be replacing laughter absurdly quickly.

 

[Meadmaker]

And... Here's something that hit me a bit hard. Not that it had much in the way of revelations, but...

What Does America’s Coronavirus Response Look Like Abroad? | NYT Opinion

It's youtube and, well... perhaps it's helpful for perspective when people like me have been stuck in this nightmare for so long that it is indeed feeling like a new normal, however much it absolutely should not be such.

I suppose that Trump may indeed be beginning to have turned lies into truth in some of the most horrible ways. While the world has laughed at the US a lot (because of Trump), pity and horror seems to be replacing laughter absurdly quickly.

Truly embarrassing.

In case there are any youngsters in the audience, I actually can remember the days when America was great. It wasn't that long ago. Oh, there were issues. America wasn't perfect. However, we really were the country that had the strongest military, and we were the wealthiest, and we had the best health care, and the best education, and the best technology, and we were the only country that could get men to the moon.

Now, we can't get germs right.

I don't know whether Trump is a cause or a symptom. I think probably both, but it's truly embarrassing to see America fail where other countries have succeeded, or at least done better than the US. It's embarrassing to think that our level of scientific knowledge has fallen so far that politicians pander to the idiot vote, because they are a force to be reckoned with at the polls.

 

[Aridas]

It's embarrassing to think that our level of scientific knowledge has fallen so far that politicians pander to the idiot vote, because they are a force to be reckoned with at the polls.

Is it worth adding to that that why the Republicans intentionally pander to the idiot vote currently is in fair part because they've been intentionally pursuing a larger strategy of turning as many people into those same useful idiots as possible for a very long time now?

 

[Meadmaker]

Is it worth adding to that that why the Republicans intentionally pander to the idiot vote currently is in fair part because they've been intentionally pursuing a larger strategy of turning as many people into those same useful idiots as possible for a very long time now?

It's hard to tell cause and effect, but yes.

 

[Planigale]

I see both sides of the 'reopen the schools' debate (at least the sides that debate it rationally), but schools that reopen WILL have problems. From a New York Times article published yesterday:


The argument for reopening schools anyway, usually runs, 'Only the elderly and people who have a preexisting condition are at risk, why penalize the rest of us?' Only the elderly and people with preexisting conditions are at risk? Risk of what, dying? In other words, no matter how sick you get, so long as you don't die you got nothing to complain about? That doesn't work for most people, especially the ones who are parents.

The other part is, 'Keeping kids away from the classroom is damaging.' True but how long do we expect this pandemic to last? This is a once-in-a-hundred-years event. Vaccines are on the horizon. This is a greater good issue, isn't it? Oddly, this sentiment -- keeping kids away from the classroom is damaging -- is seldom heard in the context of 'home schooling.' If it were maybe I'd find it a bit more credible.

This is a wish, not a fact. The last major pandemic (HIV) is still with us and still causes a million deaths a year. The last pandemic flu event was 2009. We had a near miss with SARS. Even assuming this was a 1:100 years event it falls at random, the chance of a pandemic event in five years time will be the same as it was this year. Many experts think the risk of another pandemic event is rising. The worst mistake to make is to think we are through Covid-19 so we don't have to worry for a few decades.

 

[Aridas]

This is a wish, not a fact. The last major pandemic (HIV) is still with us and still causes a million deaths a year. The last pandemic flu event was 2009. We had a near miss with SARS. Even assuming this was a 1:100 years event it falls at random, the chance of a pandemic event in five years time will be the same as it was this year. Many experts think the risk of another pandemic event is rising. The worst mistake to make is to think we are through Covid-19 so we don't have to worry for a few decades.

Add to that that, at last check, with the climate crisis, the risks of more pandemics occurring is rising, so that once in a century estimate is probably increasingly wrong as time goes on.

How Climate Change Is Contributing to Skyrocketing Rates of Infectious Disease

A catastrophic loss in biodiversity, reckless destruction of wildland and warming temperatures have allowed disease to explode. Ignoring the connection between climate change and pandemics would be “dangerous delusion,” one scientist said.

 

[The Don]

I don't know whether Trump is a cause or a symptom. I think probably both, but it's truly embarrassing to see America fail where other countries have succeeded, or at least done better than the US. It's embarrassing to think that our level of scientific knowledge has fallen so far that politicians pander to the idiot vote, because they are a force to be reckoned with at the polls.

I think he is a symptom. Throughout the Western world, the right wing have been hollowing out public services, denigrating science and casting scorn on experts as a means to "correct" the largely successful post war attempts to reduce inequality in society.

IMO after the two world wars, society as a whole was sickened by war and recognised the debt we owed to the working classes and decided to repay it by offering them a hand up though healthcare, education and opportunity.

After about 25-30 years of this the generations ticked over, the people who had fought in the war had been rewarded and people forgot the terrible effects of inequality but looked at the "costs" of addressing it and thought "meh!".

Also, we in the UK came out of the war with a real sense of community. At some point in the 1980s there was a deliberate attempt to dilute this and make it everyone for themselves. I expect something similar happened in the US.

 

[Aridas]

Also, we in the UK came out of the war with a real sense of community. At some point in the 1980s there was a deliberate attempt to dilute this and make it everyone for themselves. I expect something similar happened in the US.

It did. Notably more successfully, I think, as the people doing that also pointedly tapped into the widespread racism that was just barely under the surface.

 

[Darat]

I think he is a symptom. Throughout the Western world, the right wing have been hollowing out public services, denigrating science and casting scorn on experts as a means to "correct" the largely successful post war attempts to reduce inequality in society.

IMO after the two world wars, society as a whole was sickened by war and recognised the debt we owed to the working classes and decided to repay it by offering them a hand up though healthcare, education and opportunity.
After about 25-30 years of this the generations ticked over, the people who had fought in the war had been rewarded and people forgot the terrible effects of inequality but looked at the "costs" of addressing it and thought "meh!".

Also, we in the UK came out of the war with a real sense of community. At some point in the 1980s there was a deliberate attempt to dilute this and make it everyone for themselves. I expect something similar happened in the US.

As a more general overview - I'd say the deaths amongst the "upper class" in the 1st world war left a gap that allowed more social mobility than before, this led to the likes of the Labour "grammar boys" being able to get into positions to have greater influence than previously. This "unnatural" period in British history couldn't last for long and the "rightful" class recouped their losses and have been back in overall control for the last 40 years.

 

[Armitage72]

I think he is a symptom. Throughout the Western world, the right wing have been hollowing out public services, denigrating science and casting scorn on experts as a means to "correct" the largely successful post war attempts to reduce inequality in society.

IMO after the two world wars, society as a whole was sickened by war and recognised the debt we owed to the working classes and decided to repay it by offering them a hand up though healthcare, education and opportunity.

I remember seeing a political cartoon in which a time traveling Republican went back to the 1950s to warn Ward and June Cleaver, the icons of that long lost utopia, about all of the horrible economic changes that Barack Obama would implement if he was elected. Their response was that those changes were how things already were for them.
"Corporate CEOs making 200 times the salary of their employees? The owner of the company I work for only makes about three times what I do, and he lives in a house just down the street."

 

[Meadmaker]

Also, we in the UK came out of the war with a real sense of community. At some point in the 1980s there was a deliberate attempt to dilute this and make it everyone for themselves. I expect something similar happened in the US.

I don't know that it was deliberate, and I'm not sure it came exclusively from the right wing, but it certainly happened.

 

[Meadmaker]

Speaking of anti-science.

So Crazy Nancy Pelosi said horrible things about Dr. Deborah Birx, going after her because she was too positive on the very good job we are doing on combatting the China Virus, including Vaccines & Therapeutics. In order to counter Nancy, Deborah took the bait & hit us. Pathetic!

For Trump, that's what it is. Us and Them. Now his advisors are "pathetic".

Psssst.....Donald.......The point of advisors is that they give advice. You're supposed to listen to them. You find really smart people with knowledge about an area, and ask them stuff, and then you repeat what they say. It's ok to claim credit for their advice. That's part of the game.

They aren't spokesmen. Those are the people that are paid to say what you want them to say. They don't have to be smart. McEnany (sp?) is a spokesman. See the difference?......No?......Figures.


Oh, well. It's good to see bickering. That shows that the White House under Trump is dysfunctional. Every opportunity to see that is one more opportunity to change their minds about voting. Of course, I would prefer that there was actual competence. I wish that I were here grudgingly acknowledging that Trump and his administration handled this fantastically, and the low death count means they did something right. That's what I wish I was saying.

 

[Aridas]

I don't know that it was deliberate, and I'm not sure it came exclusively from the right wing, but it certainly happened.

Fair enough. The deliberate part involved people like Buchanan and the Kochs, though, and being a Democrat doesn't make one categorically immune to the lure of big money donations with implicit strings attached.

For Trump, that's what it is. Us and Them.

And this statement just reminds me of, well...

"How Fascism Works: The Politics of Us and Them" and the PBS interview about it.

Oh, well. It's good to see bickering. That shows that the White House under Trump is dysfunctional. Every opportunity to see that is one more opportunity to change their minds about voting. Of course, I would prefer that there was actual competence. I wish that I were here grudgingly acknowledging that Trump and his administration handled this fantastically, and the low death count means they did something right. That's what I wish I was saying.

And that statement, well... in one sense, it's good in an immediate sense. In another, well... continuing reminders that Trump's style of governing seems to be disturbingly similar to Hitler's is never a particularly happy thing.

 

[newyorkguy]

trump tweets-

With the exception of New York & a few other locations, we’ve done MUCH better than most other Countries in dealing with the China Virus. Many of these countries are now having a major second wave.

I don't know what 'countries' trump is referring to -- the ones that are "now having a major second wave" -- because as usual trump never gets too specific. Many of these countries are now having a major second wave? What does dirtbag think has been happening here? What a louse. See below for the graph showing New York vs the USA as a whole.

I am so sick of this guy. November can't come soon enough.

 

[newyorkguy]

According to the Washington Post -- in an article that's not paywalled -- some of the European countries that fear they are seeing the start of a 'second wave' of infections are Belgium, Germany and Spain. Belgium and Spain are already taking steps to limit the rise. The German government may be next.

A spike in infections has led Belgium to ramp up restrictions on social contact, while Spain has closed gyms and nightclubs in Barcelona. Meanwhile, German health officials have called a rise in infections in the past two weeks deeply concerning. Washington Post link

Yet the rates in the three European countries compared to the U.S. look pretty good. But even at much lower levels, increases in new cases trouble the leaders in these countries and they take action. Meanwhile, in the U.S., we have a far worst surge and what does trump do? He urges schools to reopen and threatens to cut testing. Unbelievable.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

https://twitter.com/axios/status/1290497186489348096

.
@jonathanvswan: “Oh, you’re doing death as a proportion of cases. I’m talking about death as a proportion of population. That’s where the U.S. is really bad. Much worse than South Korea, Germany, etc.”

@realdonaldtrump: “You can’t do that.”

Swan: “Why can’t I do that?”

Footage embedded in tweet. It's remarkable.

Also: https://twitter.com/Ankaman616/status/1290561282316410882

It's less useful to compare this to The Office/The Thick of It, and more useful to look at this and see the way the President is being regularly briefed with skewed statistics and he can't tell any better.

AND people still want to vote for him in November.

 

[Stacyhs]

https://twitter.com/axios/status/1290497186489348096



Footage embedded in tweet. It's remarkable.
Also: https://twitter.com/Ankaman616/status/1290561282316410882

OMFG. The man in an imbecile.

 

[gypsyjackson]

https://twitter.com/axios/status/1290497186489348096



Footage embedded in tweet. It's remarkable.

Also: https://twitter.com/Ankaman616/status/1290561282316410882

There are some good bits transcribed here for people who prefer reading to watching:
news.com.au piece on car crash interview

I like the bit where he says ‘we’re lower than the world’.

 

[newyorkguy]

One reality that comes through loud and clear is-

• Swan: They love you, they listen to you, they listen to every word you say. They hang on to your every word. They don’t listen to me, or the media, or Fauci, they think we’re fake news. They want to get their advice from you. And so when they hear you say, ‘Everything’s under control, don’t worry about wearing masks,’ these are people – many of them are older people, Mr President. It’s giving them a false sense of security.”
• Trump: “Well what’s your definition of control? Under the circumstances, right now, I think it’s under control.”
• Swan: “How? A thousand Americans are dying a day.”
• Trump: “They are dying, that’s true. And it is what it is. But that doesn’t mean we aren’t doing everything we can. It’s under control as much as you can control it. This is a horrible plague that beset us.”
• Swan: “You really think this is as much as we can control it? A thousand deaths a day?”
• Trump: “I’d like to know if somebody – first of all, we have done a great job. We’ve got the governors everything they needed. They didn’t do their job – many of them didn’t, some of them did. We had good and bad and we had a lot in the middle.

It is what it is? trump could care less.