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What the **** is Wrong with American Cops?

angrysoba

Philosophile
angrysoba
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
38,912
Location
Osaka, Japan
As he begged police to stop using a Taser on him on a supermarket’s floor, Lionel Morris’s cries echoed through the produce section of the store in Conway, Ark., for 6½ minutes.
Morris had run from officers on Feb. 4 and then placed one officer in a chokehold and tried to pulled out a knife, according to police, after the supermarket had reported him for removing a drone from its packaging. But as an officer had his knee on the 39-year-old’s back inside Harps Food Store, Morris, handcuffed and lying face down, repeatedly offered a succinct and familiar plea: “I can’t breathe.”
“If you can talk, you can breathe. Chill out,” replied the officer, according to body-cam footage released by the Conway Police Department on Wednesday. “We got an ambulance. "

Minutes later, Morris was “pulseless and unresponsive” when medical personnel arrived. He was pronounced dead while being transported to the hospital.
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Link
 
angrysoba said:
Link
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From another article:

"... Pulaski County court records show Morris was serving five years of probation for felony drug charges at the time of the Feb. 4 arrest. He had previously served jail time for burglary, contempt of court, fleeing, and multiple theft charges...."

As we know the police's primary responsibility is to remove "bad people".....
 
Americans will always be there to stand up against injustices that are being directed toward the wrong targets.
 
What the **** is Wrong with American Cops?
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Municipalities, police departments and police unions that will back them up no matter what they do. This gives them the "I can get away with anything" mentality.

This was what was so shocking about the death of George Floyd. Derek Chauvin stared right into a camera and essentially dared people to do something about it. He had that "I can get away with anything" look. This is what made this case different. A cop killed a man and his look told the public "**** you, I can get away with anything!"
 
Steve said:
I have not followed the link. IMO American cops were brutal first, then they became cops so that they could be brutal legally.
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The people I knew who became cops immediately after high school were all high school bullies. Those who went to college first, whether or not they graduated, were generally not. Two of my friends became cops partly because it was easy for them to get a job anywhere at the time. One was 6'6 tall and the other 6'9, and departments liked to hire huge imposing guys. One had a criminal justice degree and the other dropped out of college. Both only lasted a few years in law enforcement.
 
angrysoba said:
Morris had run from officers on Feb. 4 and then placed one officer in a chokehold and tried to pulled out a knife
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What's wrong with American cops? What's wrong with American criminals? Seriously, who doesn't know by now that this is a good way to get yourself killed?

https://www.thedailybeast.com/conwa...m-video-of-lionel-morris-death-in-supermarket

The medical examiner later concluded that Morris died of “methamphetamine intoxication with a combination of exertion, struggle, restraint and conducted electrical weapon deployment,” prosecuting attorney Carol Crews said in a letter about the investigation. The toxicology report added that Morris tested positive for meth, cannabinoids, opiates, morphine, and amphetamines and that he suffered "no life-threatening injuries."​

Don't do meth, kids.
 
From a purely outside point of you looking at these things it seems a bit like they just have too much leeway confrontation wise and backing them after, when stuff like this happens.

Again as an outsider it is a struggle for me to understand how the people in power can't just tone them down a tad, with real punishments if they turn a bit agro with a badge

Guess it takes willingness.
 
Ziggurat said:
What's wrong with American cops? What's wrong with American criminals? Seriously, who doesn't know by now that this is a good way to get yourself killed?



https://www.thedailybeast.com/conwa...m-video-of-lionel-morris-death-in-supermarket



The medical examiner later concluded that Morris died of “methamphetamine intoxication with a combination of exertion, struggle, restraint and conducted electrical weapon deployment,” prosecuting attorney Carol Crews said in a letter about the investigation. The toxicology report added that Morris tested positive for meth, cannabinoids, opiates, morphine, and amphetamines and that he suffered "no life-threatening injuries."​



Don't do meth, kids.
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Deserved it then?

Thanks for that
 
Ziggurat said:
What's wrong with American cops? What's wrong with American criminals? Seriously, who doesn't know by now that this is a good way to get yourself killed?

https://www.thedailybeast.com/conwa...m-video-of-lionel-morris-death-in-supermarket

The medical examiner later concluded that Morris died of “methamphetamine intoxication with a combination of exertion, struggle, restraint and conducted electrical weapon deployment,” prosecuting attorney Carol Crews said in a letter about the investigation. The toxicology report added that Morris tested positive for meth, cannabinoids, opiates, morphine, and amphetamines and that he suffered "no life-threatening injuries."​

Don't do meth, kids.
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Did you ever pause to wonder why no other nations cops have this problem?
 
cullennz said:
Deserved it then?

Thanks for that
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I said nothing about deserve. Someone who plays on train tracks doesn’t deserve to die for it. But it’s a rather foreseeable and avoidable consequence.
 
abaddon said:
Did you ever pause to wonder why no other nations cops have this problem?
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That’s... not even remotely true.

Our police aren’t particularly good, but you’re delusional if you think they’re the worst. We also have a pretty bad drug abuse problem, and that was a factor in this and many other police homicides.
 
Ziggurat said:
That’s... not even remotely true.

Our police aren’t particularly good, but you’re delusional if you think they’re the worst. We also have a pretty bad drug abuse problem, and that was a factor in this and many other police homicides.
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The drug laws and enforcement in the USA are more draconian than most other democracies (I assume that is what you would really like to see your country’s law enforcement compared to, and not, say, China, Saudi Arabia, Indonesia.) American police are quite zealous about arresting users for small possession of amounts of drugs for their own personal use. Due to the harshness of possession penalties in the USA ie; jail, there is likely a greater tendency for drug users to resist arrest by fleeing, fighting, etc. The result is quick escalation and a much greater chance of injury to one or more parties.

In Canada cannabis has been legal for nearly two years. There are no properly researched published reports of any noticeable changes in Canadian society due to legalization. Here simple hard drug possession and use is treated as a health issue rather than a crime. The users have no reason to fear interactions with the police so interactions between users and police rarely escalate beyond discussion.

The “drug abuse problem” and the consequences of escalation during police/user confrontations in the USA is much more due to your laws and enforcement methods than to any danger from the users themselves, or to other citizens from the users.

And yes, there is always a concern of petty crime by the drug users to get money to support their habits. Trying to use this as a reason to come down heavy on possession would be grasping at straws.
 
Steve said:
The drug laws and enforcement in the USA are more draconian than most other democracies (I assume that is what you would really like to see your country’s law enforcement compared to, and not, say, China, Saudi Arabia, Indonesia.)
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The post I responded to WAS comparing the US to China, Saudi Arabia, etc. And yes, the war on drugs isn't working. But the police don't write the laws. They are tasked with enforcing the laws. Rewrite the laws, and policing will change.

American police are quite zealous about arresting users for small possession of amounts of drugs for their own personal use. Due to the harshness of possession penalties in the USA ie; jail, there is likely a greater tendency for drug users to resist arrest by fleeing, fighting, etc. The result is quick escalation and a much greater chance of injury to one or more parties.
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The guy in this story is dead largely because he used meth, but he didn't get in trouble with the police because meth use is a crime. He wasn't arrested because they found drugs on him. In fact, I've seen no reports at all that he had any drugs on him. We only know he was on meth because of the toxicology report done as part of his autopsy. There's a lot of room for improvement on drug policy, but it's naive to think that will fix everything. Some people still haven't seen or understood Chris Rock's How Not To Get Your Ass Kicked By The Police
 
Ziggurat said:
The post I responded to WAS comparing the US to China, Saudi Arabia, etc. And yes, the war on drugs isn't working. But the police don't write the laws. They are tasked with enforcing the laws. Rewrite the laws, and policing will change.



The guy in this story is dead largely because he used meth, but he didn't get in trouble with the police because meth use is a crime. He wasn't arrested because they found drugs on him. In fact, I've seen no reports at all that he had any drugs on him. We only know he was on meth because of the toxicology report done as part of his autopsy. There's a lot of room for improvement on drug policy, but it's naive to think that will fix everything. Some people still haven't seen or understood Chris Rock's How Not To Get Your Ass Kicked By The Police
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2 of the factors contributed to his death were choices but police. The probability that police will encounter a situation where this level of force will result in death is 1. Police level of force decisions cannot be evaluated based on individual event probability.
 
Ziggurat said:
The post I responded to WAS comparing the US to China, Saudi Arabia, etc. And yes, the war on drugs isn't working. [But the police don't write the laws. They are tasked with enforcing the laws. Rewrite the laws, and policing will change.


The guy in this story is dead largely because he used meth, but he didn't get in trouble with the police because meth use is a crime. He wasn't arrested because they found drugs on him. In fact, I've seen no reports at all that he had any drugs on him. We only know he was on meth because of the toxicology report done as part of his autopsy. There's a lot of room for improvement on drug policy, but it's naive to think that will fix everything. Some people still haven't seen or understood Chris Rock's How Not To Get Your Ass Kicked By The Police
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Reasonable points. No argument here except, re the hilight - As far as I know laws against possession are still on the books in Canada. A policy decision based on public input is what resulted in the changes in enforcement. Just because a law exists does not mean it needs to be enforced with zealous enthusiasm. Part of “What .... is wrong with American Cops” is the enthusiasm some (perhaps too many) have for arresting people.
 
Darat said:
From another article:

"... Pulaski County court records show Morris was serving five years of probation for felony drug charges at the time of the Feb. 4 arrest. He had previously served jail time for burglary, contempt of court, fleeing, and multiple theft charges...."

As we know the police's primary responsibility is to remove "bad people".....
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I'd be curious to know if any attempt was made to deal with his fairly obvious chemical dependency issues. It seems to me that this person needed multiple interventions but the only ones he got were from the police. He might not have ever been in this situation if we'd stop only using the police to fix the medical condition of addiction.
 
Our most popular superhero is a bazillionaire who has the means to address the etiology of crime in his city but instead spends untold billions on machines he can use to punch crime in the face.

I assume Canada has dorkwad superheros like De-escalation Man. Boooo, boring. Once in the 90s I was channel surfing and found a show called Mounties: The Royal Canadian Mounted Police. It was an obvious Cops knock-off, but it was like cops showing up at people houses and being polite about their unlicensed firearms, then fifteen minute dressage interludes.
 
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