Passenger killed by air marshall

Perforatu said:
If someone starts hyperventilating and becomes nearly oblivious of his or her surroundings (I've seen it happen) and is therefore unable to comply with an officer's orders, are they fair game?
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Depends on the situation. If someone starts ranting and raving, and runs to reach into their bag.. they are fair game.
 
thaiboxerken said:
What do you mean by clear?
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What do you mean by "mean"? Come to think of it...what's this symbol for: ? And are you sure your username is thaiboxerken? How can you PROVE that your username is thaiboxerken? Don't tell me just to look at your username. I want you to PROVE it. And what does "prove" mean"? What do you mean by "what do you mean"? What do you mean by "What do you mean by "what do you mean"? What does anything mean? You are all wrong. Especially you evil Americans.

DENNNNNNNNNMMMMMMMMAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRK!!!!!1!!11!!!!!!!
 
Sheesh, freakshow, you just ruined the game. I was going to see how high I could pile on the irony.
 
thaiboxerken said:
Depends on the situation. If someone starts ranting and raving, and runs to reach into their bag.. they are fair game.
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What if they're ranting and raving about needing to get off the plane, and fumbling for their bags because they desperately need their cigarettes/inhalers/heart pills/whatever they believe might calm them?

I ask because I once travelled with a publisher and first-time flier who experienced his first, full-blown panic attack during takeoff. It took a lot of convincing on my part (and the attention of a lovely stewardess, who had thankfully seen this kind of thing before) to keep him from unlocking his seatbelt and making a dash for the bathroom. Afterwards he claimed he'd never felt such a relentless fight-or-flight instinct before. And this was on a simple 40 minute flight to London!

It kind of leads me to wonder what systems are in place to separate the evildoers from the innocents. Are people with conditions that might act up during flight required to present statements from their physicians to the airline companies before they fly? If so, is there a channel set up to communicate this information to the sky marshalls, so they can identify such passengers?
 
Perforatu said:
What if they're ranting and raving about needing to get off the plane, and fumbling for their bags because they desperately need their cigarettes/inhalers/heart pills/whatever they believe might calm them?
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Yes. They are fair game. Randing and raving and running does nothing to help their situation.
 
thaiboxerken said:
Yes. They are fair game. Randing and raving and running does nothing to help their situation.
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Okay, just checking.

(Still - I think it's somewhat ironic that flying may actually have become more dangerous for panic-prone people with the introduction of sky marshalls. Oh well.)
 
thaiboxerken said:
Yes. They are fair game. Randing and raving and running does nothing to help their situation.
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This brings us right back to the "I'm a citizen" game.

Are we actually any safer if we turn airports and planes into miniature police states where the troops can kill us on the spot if they thought they heard the word "bomb"?

In this case we had a mentally ill person who was running off a plane, who may very well not have said anything to indicate that he possessed a bomb or other weapon, and who had passed through multiple layers of security and better terrorist targets to get to where he was.

Are we really safer if we have a policy to shoot people in that situation rather than calming them down, or rugby tackling them?

To some extent on a plane or in a departure lounge there is less excuse for the use of lethal force in ambiguous cases than in most places because it is comparatively less likely that a problematic individual will have a weapon.

It is not as if a bomb going off in a departure lounge is somehow a bigger threat than a bomb going off in rush hour traffic or any other crowded public place.
 
CFLarsen said:
How do you know that an "official US document" is "A document written by the governing bodies of the USA"?
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Because that is how the US government defines it, with some added qualifications, such as the intent of the creation of the document.

The courts have repeatedly reiterated that the DoI has no legal standing whatsoever. It exists exclusively as a historical record of the seccession of the colonies from England, and the reasons given for doing so. It does not at any point claim to be a charter of government, nor does it contain any legislation. It has no more standing than any other writings of the Founding Fathers, and indeed, is generally accorded considerably less than others when interpreting Constitutional law (eg. the Federalist Papers).

The original charter intended to be an official government document was the Articles of Confederation which were not created until a year after the declaration, and not ratified for another four. This established an interim government whose task it was to create the actual official structure for the goverment of the confederated colonies. The "supreme law of the land" is and always has been the US Constitution; which created the government that we currently have. No documents prior to that are officially recognized as having any legal force, and are consulted only with regard to interpreting the intent of the writers of the Constitution.
 
Kevin_Lowe said:
It is not as if a bomb going off in a departure lounge is somehow a bigger threat than a bomb going off in rush hour traffic or any other crowded public place.
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Better to err on the side of safety. The guy had NO REASON to run and act stupid, even the mentally ill must suffer consequences for irrational action in a secure zone.
 
Freakshow said:
What do you mean by "mean"? Come to think of it...what's this symbol for: ? And are you sure your username is thaiboxerken? How can you PROVE that your username is thaiboxerken? Don't tell me just to look at your username. I want you to PROVE it. And what does "prove" mean"? What do you mean by "what do you mean"? What do you mean by "What do you mean by "what do you mean"? What does anything mean? You are all wrong. Especially you evil Americans.

DENNNNNNNNNMMMMMMMMAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRK!!!!!1!!11!!!!!!!
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"What do I mean by the word mean? What do I mean by the word word, what do I mean by what do I mean, what do I mean by do, and what do I do by mean? What do I do by do by do and what do I do by wasting your time like this?"
 
Kevin_Lowe said:
In this case we had a mentally ill person who was running off a plane, who may very well not have said anything to indicate that he possessed a bomb or other weapon, and who had passed through multiple layers of security and better terrorist targets to get to where he was.
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The old-fashioned non-suicide bombing is still an option for terrorists, isn't it? Smuggle in a bomb (I'd bet there's still holes a mile wide in airport security, such as in deliveries to the many stores/restaurants in the secure area of the terminal), get it on the plane and then run off. Maybe then blow yourself up in the crowded terminal, who knows? Terrorists can come up w/ some imaginative plans.

If this keeps the mentally unstable off planes, that's a bonus. Like that French woman who wanted to step out to have a cigarette... while the plane was in flight.
 
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