Jeffrey Epstein arrested for child sex trafficking

[smartcooky]

What's the consensus on whether Epstein actually offed himself or whether he had "help?"

I'm 50/50 on this.

It is very tempting to embrace the idea that it seems very, very suspicious; a man who will certainly have had the goods on some very important, highly placed people, and could have used those goods to trade off for a lighter sentence, would have offed himself.

However, for those of us who like to think of ourselves as critical thinkers, we also have to be wary of the fact that this is also the way many conspiracy theorists think.

Without knowing Epstein's state of mind, we'll probably never know for certain one way the other.

 

[angrysoba]

Most of the stuff about Epstein being murdered DOES sound like conspiracy theory stuff to me. I mean, he apparently tried it once already so that gives a clue to his state of mind. Did we hear any claim that that was a murder attempt then?

Do people in prison cells commit suicide especially when faced with serious allegations like this? Um... yes.

People assume that it must be about their favourite hate figure (some will choose Trump and others will choose Clinton), but maybe for Epstein it was about him. Maybe he knew he was going to be going to a jail as a convicted sex trafficker if underage girls and having to avoid the other prisoners and the punishment that they would mete out and he decided he would rather end it all himself.

 

[Sideroxylon]

Most of the stuff about Epstein being murdered DOES sound like conspiracy theory stuff to me. I mean, he apparently tried it once already so that gives a clue to his state of mind. Did we hear any claim that that was a murder attempt then?

Do people in prison cells commit suicide especially when faced with serious allegations like this? Um... yes.

People assume that it must be about their favourite hate figure (some will choose Trump and others will choose Clinton), but maybe for Epstein it was about him. Maybe he knew he was going to be going to a jail as a convicted sex trafficker if underage girls and having to avoid the other prisoners and the punishment that they would mete out and he decided he would rather end it all himself.

At a minimum it was very careless of authorities, even more so if we are to accept your disposition claims. This is a man who was nonce to a prince and billionaires - so far these powerful people have looked untouchable and the convenience of his death is an affront. Add into the equation what a corrupt and dysfunctional nation the US has become, public suspicion is understandable.

 

[Checkmite]

At a minimum it was very careless of authorities, even more so if we are to accept your disposition claims. This is a man who was nonce to a prince and billionaires - so far these powerful people have looked untouchable and the convenience of his death is an affront.

Yeah - nah. It's important that he was caught, but we're not talking about El Chapo here; we're not talking about somebody who was going to Supermax if he was convicted, and neither would any of his "clients"; I would bet we're talking less than ten years for any one the johns, maybe a lot less. For as much as this country likes to talk about how much we just hate sexual predators of the underaged, actual sentences for such crimes are often kind of lean and I don't see that changing just because a particular predator is rich.

 

[angrysoba]

Isn't this a weird thing to say?:

Ghislaine Maxwell would never say anything about the Duke of York’s relationship with Jeffrey Epstein, according to one of her friends.
...

Speaking to the Today programme on Saturday, Goldman was asked if Maxwell would seek to obtain a plea deal in which she might plead guilty to some charges in return for a commuted sentence. “I think she has to,” Goldman said.

Asked if she would talk about Prince Andrew, Goldman said. “No. She’s always told me that she would never ever say anything about him. I think she felt that he was her friend and she was never ever going to say anything about him. She really felt that in the 90s when her father died that Prince Andrew was there for her, in many ways.”

Doesn't that sound more damning than her saying, "Oh, sure, she knows that Prince Andrew has never done anything wrong in his life and she would vouch for him!" rather than, "Don't worry, she'll keep completely shtum! No way is she going to spill the beans, let the cat out of the bag or let anyone know about Randy Andy's taste for underage candy. Her lips will be sealed! You know, to help out the Prince!"

 

[timhau]

Somebody please tell me why we give a damn whether or not the FBI director used the word "slithered"? Why are we expending effort on this?

Yeah. Because one of the things she will have to answer for is perjury, I'm half expecting someone to yell "Process crime!" soon.

 

[catsmate]

I was on my phone, which provides crappy apple news links, not direct links.

As the post says, I 'cited' CNN.

ETA - for those who are using a device with a clickable "right button" on their browser, this is an option. Right click and choose "search with google."

[IMGw=400]https://i.imgur.com/AOdwmE3.png[/IMGw]

[IMGw=400]https://i.imgur.com/g8hw4Gl.png[/IMGw]

[IMGw=400]https://i.imgur.com/Y81axhy.png[/IMGw]

OMG. you're an Apple person. And I used to have respect for you......

I already provided a YouTube link to a video of him saying those exact words so I think we can put this question to rest now.

Just how long have you been active here?

 

[Arcade22]

Isn't this a weird thing to say?:



Doesn't that sound more damning than her saying, "Oh, sure, she knows that Prince Andrew has never done anything wrong in his life and she would vouch for him!" rather than, "Don't worry, she'll keep completely shtum! No way is she going to spill the beans, let the cat out of the bag or let anyone know about Randy Andy's taste for underage candy. Her lips will be sealed! You know, to help out the Prince!"

The emphasis was on her perceived loyalty to him so I would not read it as an affirmation that she knows about his dirty laundry, just that she would not talk about it or rat him out even if she knew.

 

[Matthew Best]

There are reports this morning that Ghislane Maxwell has been arrested in New Hampshire. [nbcnewyork.com]

I wonder if Sarah Kellen/Kensington is now feeling nervous. I kind of hope so.

 

[Bob001]

Yeah - nah. It's important that he was caught, but we're not talking about El Chapo here; we're not talking about somebody who was going to Supermax if he was convicted, and neither would any of his "clients"; I would bet we're talking less than ten years for any one the johns, maybe a lot less. For as much as this country likes to talk about how much we just hate sexual predators of the underaged, actual sentences for such crimes are often kind of lean and I don't see that changing just because a particular predator is rich.

He was accused of multiple accounts of raping teen-agers in an organized scheme that lasted decades. Why would you imagine he wasn't looking at long hard time? Weinstein was convicted of two assaults against adult women and was sentenced to 23 years. It was only Epstein's celebrity connections that got him a near-walk in Florida. He was 66. He knew he was looking at an effective life sentence.

That doesn't mean that he wasn't murdered, or that he wasn't left unwatched deliberately when he was potentially suicidal.

 

[Arcade22]

Yeah - nah. It's important that he was caught, but we're not talking about El Chapo here; we're not talking about somebody who was going to Supermax if he was convicted, and neither would any of his "clients"; I would bet we're talking less than ten years for any one the johns, maybe a lot less. For as much as this country likes to talk about how much we just hate sexual predators of the underaged, actual sentences for such crimes are often kind of lean and I don't see that changing just because a particular predator is rich.

Compared to many if not most European countries, prison sentences in the US for most crimes are in general much longer. This includes sex crimes directed against children or youth.

One of the reasons why the US has such a high incarcerated population relative to its population is because of long prison sentences.

 

[Bob001]

The emphasis was on her perceived loyalty to him so I would not read it as an affirmation that she knows about his dirty laundry, just that she would not talk about it or rat him out even if she knew.

I think we're pretty much past the "if" stage here. Numerous women have said she was his procurer. She also handled his money. There's no reason not to think she knows everything.

 

[Bob001]

Ten alleged reasons to doubt suicide:
https://listverse.com/2019/11/10/jeffrey-epstein-murdered/

 

[Arcade22]

I think we're pretty much past the "if" stage here. Numerous women have said she was his procurer. She also handled his money. There's no reason not to think she knows everything.

I was speaking with regards to Prince Andrew.

 

[shemp]

Ten alleged reasons to doubt suicide:
https://listverse.com/2019/11/10/jeffrey-epstein-murdered/

I don't want to look like I'm endorsing a conspiracy theory*, but if I was betting and the propositions were "suicide" or "murder," I think I'd get a better return betting on "murder." And if it was suicide, they sure gave him a big opportunity to do it without being observed.

I wouldn't put a penny on Ghislane Maxwell's chances of living long enough to sing in court.

* I am, I just don't want to look like I am.

 

[smartcooky]

I don't want to look like I'm endorsing a conspiracy theory*, but if I was betting and the propositions were "suicide" or "murder," I think I'd get a better return betting on "murder." And if it was suicide, they sure gave him a big opportunity to do it without being observed.

I wouldn't put a penny on Ghislane Maxwell's chances of living long enough to sing in court.

* I am, I just don't want to look like I am.

Nor would I.

She needs to be protected and watched otherwise she might "commit suicide" as well.

 

[Bob001]

.....And if it was suicide, they sure gave him a big opportunity to do it without being observed.
....

It just shouldn't be possible for a high-profile prisoner to kill himself in a federal lock-up. It might have happened, but there are too many unanswered questions.

 

[Checkmite]

There is no evidence Epstein was murdered; that's a pure la-la-land fairy story.

There is no evidence Epstein was "purposefully allowed to" commit suicide. He was taken off suicide watch because his lawyer demanded it, end of story.

 

[Bob001]

There is no evidence Epstein was murdered; that's a pure la-la-land fairy story.

There is no evidence Epstein was "purposefully allowed to" commit suicide. He was taken off suicide watch because his lawyer demanded it, end of story.

If that's true the lawyer would surely have been acting at Epstein's demand, which might mean he was planning his suicide. Authorities could have turned down the request, and might even have been suspicious of it. And the guards were proven not to have conducted the regular checks that they were responsible for, and Epstein's cellmate was moved out and never replaced. The point is not only that it shouldn't have happened, but shouldn't have been possible. Maybe not as clear-cut as you think.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

My stance has always been that Epstein died of "assisted suicide": he put his affairs in as much order as he could, he had a lot of experience in paying off guards, and he could see that this time there won't be a cushy sentence.
He also knew that suicide is hard.

I think he had an inmate or guard paid to kill him fast and hopefully painless.