Cont: The One Covid-19 Science and Medicine Thread Part 2

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It is a big deal, but in the way you think. If remdesivir turns out to actually be
effective, how many countries will say "**** the patent, the lives of our citizens
are more important"? This could be the beginning of the end for drug patents!

On this I'm going to have to disagree. It seems that under a Compulsory
License any company who manufactures the drug must pay a a fee set either
by agreement with the patent holder or through court of law arbitration.

Upshot, patent company gets money and doesn't have to do any extra work
such as manufacturing, testing, or distribution, and probably doesn't face any
legal liabilities either.
 
It was a democratic governor here who opened the churches and refused to enforce the visitor quarantine. ENough with the dumb politics...WHat party is the governor in california again?
 
No one should imagine that covid is anything like flu.
When the pandemic hit the United States in late March, many hospital systems were too overwhelmed trying to save lives to spend too much time delving into the secrets of the dead. But by late May and June, the first large batch of reports — from patients who died at a half-dozen different institutions — were published in quick succession. The investigations have confirmed some of our early hunches of the disease, refuted others — and opened up new mysteries about the novel pathogen that has killed more than 500,000 people worldwide.

Among the most important findings, consistent across several studies, is confirmation the virus appears to attack the lungs the most ferociously. They also found the pathogen in parts of the brain, kidneys, liver, gastrointestinal tract, spleen and in the endothelial cells that line blood vessels, as some had previously suspected. Researchers also found widespread clotting in many organs.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/07/01/coronavirus-autopsies-findings/
 
More than 100 times that in Florida alone yesterday. 40,450 in the USA, on a Sunday, when reporting is usually lower. Very bad news.

On the question of building A/C and general issue of ventilation in buildings this just got discussed by the Atlantic.



https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/06/is-air-conditioning-safe-pandemic/613438

Someone studying the virus said yesterday that the virus's favourite conditions are low humidity under 10 degrees Celsius.
 
I was saying a week or so ago on Channel 9 on Facebook I'd volunteer to be a test subject for vaccines.

You could be a subject for whether they do harm, but having had Covid, they couldn't use you to see if it works.
 
Antibody tests may not tell the whole story:

Coronavirus: Immunity may be more widespread than tests suggest (BBC)

For every person testing positive for antibodies, two were found to have specific T-cells which identify and destroy infected cells.

This was seen even in people who had mild or symptomless cases of Covid-19.
. . .

This could mean a wider group have some level of immunity to Covid-19 than antibody testing figures, like those published as part of the UK Office for National Statistics Infection Survey, suggest.
. . .

Prof Danny Altmann at Imperial College London described the study as "robust, impressive and thorough" and said it added to a growing body of evidence that "antibody testing alone underestimates immunity".

I'm not sure what it all means, but the human immune system is more complicated than just "antibodies". There are T-cells and others that are involved, so maybe antibodies aren't strictly necessary?
 
I'm not sure what it all means, but the human immune system is more complicated than just "antibodies". There are T-cells and others that are involved, so maybe antibodies aren't strictly necessary?

I saw that story and also have no clue what it means. Are those people naturally high in T-cells and didn't catch it, or were they exposed but never caught it?

Someone will hopefully unpack it a little.
 
I saw that story and also have no clue what it means. Are those people naturally high in T-cells and didn't catch it, or were they exposed but never caught it?

Someone will hopefully unpack it a little.

It's all part of the normal immune response. Both T and B (antibody) cells are produced upon infection, but T cells are not usually tested for as this requires technically demanding cell culture methods over several days. Antibodies levels can decline but T cells remain as memory cells that can restart the immune response on a secondary exposure. T cells can also have direct effector functions on virus-infected cells. Given that antibody can't be made without T cells then this is nothing new but highlights that a negative antibody response may not mean much and it's not clear what the antibody test will tell us, as we don't know what level of antibody correlates to immunity from infection. However, given that you can recover then some immune mechanism is in play.
 
https://www.fastcompany.com/9051990...id-death-rates-100-times-lower-than-projected

Countries where everyone wore masks saw COVID death rates 100 times lower than projected
Now that there is global data about where COVID is spreading, scientists can see the various factors that help mitigate its spread. The simplest and most effective: masks.

OK. Grain of salt maybe but there does seem to be a huge difference between countries where people wore masks from the start and those who didn't.
 
A new observational study in conflict with most previous ones on Hydroxychloroquine showing significant (50%) mortality reduction.

Treatment with Hydroxychloroquine, Azithromycin, and Combination in Patients Hospitalized with COVID-19

https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(20)30534-8/fulltext
It's not a new study. Maybe it's newly reported. The patients were in the hospital between
March 10,2020 to May 2,2020

I don't understand how these patients were assigned to the treatment groups.

Limitations to our analysis include the retrospective, non-randomized, non-blinded study design.

They did exclude patients with preexisting cardiac issues, apparently.


Anyway, I don't see this as a conclusive study of anything. I've said it before, if these drugs were very useful, we'd have seen that and been using them already.
 
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I don't understand how these patients were assigned to the treatment groups.

I was struck by the death rate in the immediate days after admission. The group they assigned to Hydroxychloroquine died at a far, far lower rate in the first few days then deaths gradually increased through the rest of the hospitalization. The other group died more rapidly but plateaued.

This smells of some significant difference in the initial selection. So, yeah, I'm suspicious.
 
It's all part of the normal immune response. Both T and B (antibody) cells are produced upon infection, but T cells are not usually tested for as this requires technically demanding cell culture methods over several days. Antibodies levels can decline but T cells remain as memory cells that can restart the immune response on a secondary exposure. T cells can also have direct effector functions on virus-infected cells. Given that antibody can't be made without T cells then this is nothing new but highlights that a negative antibody response may not mean much and it's not clear what the antibody test will tell us, as we don't know what level of antibody correlates to immunity from infection. However, given that you can recover then some immune mechanism is in play.

Ok, thanks.

The next question is, does that mean the T cells are there in response to Covid, or could they be there as a result of a different infection?
 
The T cell response is specific, same as antibodies.


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I was struck by the death rate in the immediate days after admission. The group they assigned to Hydroxychloroquine died at a far, far lower rate in the first few days then deaths gradually increased through the rest of the hospitalization. The other group died more rapidly but plateaued.

This smells of some significant difference in the initial selection. So, yeah, I'm suspicious.
But they didn't "assign" them. They looked back at patients already given the meds.

Unless you read something I didn't.
 
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