Trump and the use of Nazi/fascist imagery

[Segnosaur]

We have recently seen a few cases where Trump and/or his campaign has started to use imagery related to Nazi Germany or 20th centry Facism in general.

Now, admittedly, mistakes can be made... Someone may not know the origins of a phrase, or one image looks bad just by coincidince. But the sheer number of these types of incidences is certainly.... curious. Some people might think they are "dog whistles"... deliberatly meant to drum up support among the far right. Others might think that they aren't deliberate, but mistakes where Trump wanted to keep his racism hidden but it ended up showing anyways.

Any that I've missed?

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During the 2015 primaries, Trump tweets a picture of an American flag, with the white house and a group of soldiers in the background. However, the solders were actually wearing uniforms based on those used in Nazi Germany.

CNN

During the 2016 campaign, Trump quoted Mussolini. "It is better to live one day as a lion than 100 years as a sheep."

Politico

During the 2016 election, Trump tweeted a picture of Clinton, a bunch of cash, and a yellow star of David (the same symbol used to identify Jews in nazi concentration camps), which was widely thought to suggest "Clinton is being bribed by Jews". The campaign tried to explain it as being a "Sherrif's star", but the image had previously been posted in a racist forum.

CNN

Trump starts to adopt the phrase "America First". Now, that particular slogan had been in use for well over a centry (long before World War 1); however, it had been adopted by anti-interventionalists/pro-Nazi sympathizers during world war 2.

The Guardian

Trump campaign placed facebook ads waring people against 'far left' groups like Antifa. However, the message was accompanied by a red triangle, which was the same symbole used in Nazi concentration camps to denote political prisoners

Forbes

Trump tweets a video where a Trump supporter is clearly heard shouting "White Power".

CNN

Trump's campaign started to produce a shirt with an 'America First' theme. The problem is, the logo tht was used (An eagle, wings spread, head facing right, and perched on a circle) was the same one used by Nazi germany.

Forbes

 

[Busta Capp]

A bunch of left leaning people call Trump a Nazi.

Good sleuthing.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

It always seemed to me that the people adopting Nazi language and iconography think of them as some kind of spell that gives them The Power of the Fuhrer^TM.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Maybe somebody told Trump that black is slimming. It is, but it only goes so far.

 

[Craig4]

I think most of it come from the self loathing little **** Steve Miller. Trump's not smart enough to even know where to go to find Nazi and fascist quotes. Miller, like all Trump supporters is disloyal to his nation but he's the "brains" of the operation.

 

[Horatius]

"Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, three times is enemy action."

That's a good rule to follow in such things. There's enough in common between national symbols (flags, eagles, stars, shapes, **** like that), that one or two similarities can probably happen by accident. I'm reminded of a talk I attended by the lead intellectual property officer for Target, the year they tried to move into the Canadian market, where he talked about how hard it was to find images for trademarks that hadn't already been used by someone else previously.

But when it keeps happening? And it seems they only "accidentally" copy the Nazis. When was the last time they "accidentally" copied a communist or socialist theme? Or any other identifiable political position, or country? They're not "accidentally" copying the Canadian or Mexican flags. Nope, it always seems to be the Nazis.

 

[Darat]

Eagles and the USA I can understand and most stylised versions will end up with sharing similarities.

The rest if it ain't on purpose they are truly incompetent, but that is not always a dichotomy.

 

[Horatius]

Eagles and the USA I can understand and most stylised versions will end up with sharing similarities.

The rest if it ain't on purpose they are truly incompetent, but that is not always a dichotomy.

Alas, that's always a possibility with this crowd. Any normal President, after being called out on a couple of accidental homages to Hitler, would stop and say, "Are we absolutely sure this new image doesn't look anything at all like Nazi iconography? Can we get someone to at least flip through the Big Book of Nazi Flags, just to be sure?"

But Trump? He's exactly the type who would buy Steve Miller's "Opps! I Nazied again!" excuses without question.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Here's a side-by-side comparison of the latest imagery, for people to judge for themselves:

 

[ginjawarrior]

On Thursday, June 18th, Facebook removed ads that the Trump re-election campaign began running the day earlier, citing the company’s policy against promoting organized hate. At the center of the ads and of the controversy was an inverted red triangle. The same symbol was used by Nazis to mark political prisoners–Communists, Freemasons, people who had helped Jews–in concentration camps.

If your reaction is, “sometimes a cigar is just a cigar,” consider also that the first sentence of the ads contained 14 words, and a total of 88 ads were purchased by the campaign to be run on Facebook.

Fourteen words, 14, symbolizes a popular alt-right slogan, “We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children.” Eighty-eight, 88, stands for Heil Hitler—H is the 8th letter of the alphabet. Together, 14-88 are often used to signal allegiance to an alt-right group and the ideas of White Supremacy.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/...d-triangle-14-words-and-88-ads-have-in-common

 

[Belz...]

Trump's campaign started to produce a shirt with an 'America First' theme. The problem is, the logo tht was used (An eagle, wings spread, head facing right, and perched on a circle) was the same one used by Nazi germany.

Reminescent, not the same.

Still, the sheer number of those is hard to explain away, unless one wants to make the case that it's just that Trump tends to retweet and repeat what he hears from his mob, who are dominated by far-right nationalists.

 

[Segnosaur]

I think most of it come from the self loathing little **** Steve Miller. Trump's not smart enough to even know where to go to find Nazi and fascist quotes. Miller, like all Trump supporters is disloyal to his nation but he's the "brains" of the operation.

Possible that Miller is behind most of it. (Although some of it predates him joining the Trump campaign.)

Although I suspect that that some of Trump's spawn might have something to do with it too. (I can see Trump Jr. or Eric surfing through various neo-nazi sites as pornography, stumbling across something and saying "Dad... here's something you can use!")

 

[Segnosaur]

But when it keeps happening? And it seems they only "accidentally" copy the Nazis. When was the last time they "accidentally" copied a communist or socialist theme? Or any other identifiable political position, or country? They're not "accidentally" copying the Canadian or Mexican flags. Nope, it always seems to be the Nazis.

Well, to be fair, they did sort of borrow some imagery once from Russia, but I suspect in that case it really was unintentional.

From: BBC
...the seal that was flashed on screen as Mr Trump walked on stage had several calculated tweaks...the eagle that appeared on screen this week was not the eagle hand-picked by the Founding Fathers. Instead, the two-headed bird briefly projected next to Mr Trump bears a striking resemblance to the eagle featured on the Russian flag.

But Trump? He's exactly the type who would buy Steve Miller's "Opps! I Nazied again!" excuses without question.

Wouldn't he be better off to say "I did Nazi that coming".

 

[Segnosaur]

Eagles and the USA I can understand and most stylised versions will end up with sharing similarities.

Some similarities? Maybe. But I can think of a dozen variations they could have made... show the eagle from the side...have the head pointed right, or down, or have it below the wings...have the talons holding something or outstretched instead of perched, or have it perched on a branch instead of a circle containing a symbol... show something in the eagle's beak, or show it with the mouth open... show the wings at a different angle.

If you do a google-search on "eagle logo" you can find a lot of good examples of 'eagle imagery', which would not be mistaken in any way for the eagle used by Nazi germany.

The rest if it ain't on purpose they are truly incompetent, but that is not always a dichotomy.

If it is a case of incompetence, you wonder why we haven't heard more about people being fired over them.

And if its incompetence, you have to wonder how those mistakes can slip in... totally random, or is it a case where the people involved had a preference for far-right imagery and it kind of just filtered in.

 

[Horatius]

Well, to be fair, they did sort of borrow some imagery once from Russia, but I suspect in that case it really was unintentional.

From: BBC
...the seal that was flashed on screen as Mr Trump walked on stage had several calculated tweaks...the eagle that appeared on screen this week was not the eagle hand-picked by the Founding Fathers. Instead, the two-headed bird briefly projected next to Mr Trump bears a striking resemblance to the eagle featured on the Russian flag.

In that case, the imagery was absolutely deliberate, but it was created by someone was was opposed to the Trump fiasco. It's use in this context was attributed to incompetence on the part of an intern/flunky.

And of course, they haven't done this exact thing again, have they? As the rule I stated indicates, this one time it probably was a mistake.

Wouldn't he be better off to say "I did Nazi that coming".

I considered that joke, but decided an original one that riffs on a popular pop song was better. Comedy is hard!

 

[TragicMonkey]

Here's a side-by-side comparison of the latest imagery, for people to judge for themselves:

[qimg]https://i.imgur.com/bBQFklD.jpg[/qimg]

As much as I loathe Trump, there are only so many ways to depict an eagle in an emblem. Anything other than wings spread is going to look silly, and it can only face one of two directions. (I don't I've ever seen any bird depicted in national symbolism or heraldry that was looking straight ahead.) And American symbols are full of eagles--it's not the most original of bird choices for emblems.

 

[Segnosaur]

A bunch of left leaning people call Trump a Nazi.

Good sleuthing.

These are not 'left people calling Trump a Nazi'... this is Trump and the campaign somehow using nazi/fascist imagery.

Are you denying that Trump showed a picture of people in nazi-styled uniforms? Because the source of the images has been tracked down and yes, they were based on german uniforms.

Are you denying Trump quoted Mussolini? Because the source of that quote is pretty well established, as is Trump's use of it.

Are you denying that the Nazis used red triangles and yellow stars in concentration camps?

 

[angrysoba]

Some of the stuff such as the numbers (88) look like they may reflect supporters’ beliefs. No doubt Trump has quite a few Nazi supporters. It’s almost too “clever” for Trump to try to signal to neo-Nazis like that.

US iconography frequency looks pretty fascist though, partly because of the use of Roman symbols and iconography.

But look at the Lincoln memorial. He’s resting his hands on fasces. Coins have fasces on them. Go into the government buildings - fasces everywhere. It shouldn’t be too surprising that a fasces got elected president.

 

[Segnosaur]

As much as I loathe Trump, there are only so many ways to depict an eagle in an emblem. Anything other than wings spread is going to look silly

Wings can be spread in angles other than straight out to the left and right... They can either be held higher above the head or bent downwards.

and it can only face one of two directions.

Then make it face in the non-nazi direction. Or put the head below the level of the wings. (Frankly I think that makes it look much more bad-ass.)

(I don't I've ever seen any bird depicted in national symbolism or heraldry that was looking straight ahead.)

This is not a national symbol. Its a campaign logo. Thus they have more flexibility.

And American symbols are full of eagles--it's not the most original of bird choices for emblems.

Yes they are.

I did a google search and found a good half dozen eagle-based logos/symbols. The Trump campaign could have copied any one of them and people wouldn't have thought anything of it. Yet instead they happen to design a logo that matches the nazi eagle.

 

[sackett]

Well, a feces DID get elected president.

For certain values of "elected."