Steven Avery: Making of a Murderer Part 2
- Thread starter JREF2010
- Start date
Chris_Halkides
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2009
- Messages
- 12,576
One cannot be separated from the other
Some time ago I noted that the people who think that Mr. Dassey and Mr. Avery are guilty in effect say, "Look at the mountain of evidence," yet also say, "Look away from how it was obtained." Someday, they may see the contradiction in their position, but I am not holding my breath.
Chris_Halkides
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2009
- Messages
- 12,576
still waiting
Roger Ramjets and Essexman,
Can you produce an expert in false convictions who says that there was nothing wrong with the way that Mr. Dassey was interrogated? Can you refute the points he made (link in a previous comment)?
So far there has been nothing but the sound of crickets.
Roger Ramjets and Essexman,
Can you produce an expert in false convictions who says that there was nothing wrong with the way that Mr. Dassey was interrogated? Can you refute the points he made (link in a previous comment)?
So far there has been nothing but the sound of crickets.
I can't speak for anyone else, but this is not my position. There is indeed a mountain of evidence, but it all points to Avery and not Dassey. I also acknowledge that there were mistakes made by both the investigators and the prosecutors, but those mistakes don't change the facts of the case.
Is your position that since these mistakes were made we should throw out or ignore all evidence of Avery's guilt? If that is the case, then how is your position any different from what you claim ours to be?
For two reasons the mountain of evidence also points to Dassey
A) Steven Avery has made multiple admissions that Brendan was with him that night.
B) Brendans confession lead to more evidence being discovered.
That Brendan was there that night is not in dispute by either side in this case. Hardly a mountain of evidence against him. His confession does not fit many of the known facts of the case, and what he did get right was most likely fed to him by the investigators. Even if Dassey is eventually released it wouldn't change my position on Avery.
Despite the position by some that the evidence against Avery was either fabricated or planted, no one has ever come close to proving that assertion. No one has ever produced any exculpatory evidence for Avery. If someone ever does, I would happily change my position and admit I was wrong.
wasapi
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- May 27, 2008
- Messages
- 17,585
Earlier today I watched a documentary on - either the ID channel or Reelz. It is current, (will possibly be on YouTube later), it seemed a balanced documentation.
Some evidence was perhaps new to me, however, it has been awhile and perhaps I had forgotten. However, my belief, then and way back, that they are both a couple of guilty murdering Monsters.
I started to say, 'both a couple of guilty murdering animals,', then realized it is too good for them. (I am also remembering Avery loving "to burn cats alive.)
Some evidence was perhaps new to me, however, it has been awhile and perhaps I had forgotten. However, my belief, then and way back, that they are both a couple of guilty murdering Monsters.
I started to say, 'both a couple of guilty murdering animals,', then realized it is too good for them. (I am also remembering Avery loving "to burn cats alive.)
Brendan was not fed any false information. He passed the controlled question by refuting the assertion that Teresa had tattoos.
Brendan passes the control question
Busta Capp
Thinker
I completely believe that Avery is guilty.
Dassey may or may not have played an active role but he was there.
Manitowoc should have stayed out of it like they said they would.
Sure interrogators "tricked" Brendan, it's what they do to people too stupid to know you don't ever have to talk to them.
Based on the "questionable" evidence gathering by a department who had informally recused themselves and had an axe to grind, and numerous other issues as outlined above, as much as I hate to say it, the jury should have found reasonable doubt in a 1st degree murder charge.
There are many cases where an eyewitness that someone was in an area and/or their cell phone pinged a tower nearby are enough to have people on death row.
The system is supposedly set up so 1000 guilty men go free, than 1 innocent be locked up.
I'm not naive enough to believe it's ever practiced, but it's supposed to be the system.
Dassey may or may not have played an active role but he was there.
Manitowoc should have stayed out of it like they said they would.
Sure interrogators "tricked" Brendan, it's what they do to people too stupid to know you don't ever have to talk to them.
Based on the "questionable" evidence gathering by a department who had informally recused themselves and had an axe to grind, and numerous other issues as outlined above, as much as I hate to say it, the jury should have found reasonable doubt in a 1st degree murder charge.
There are many cases where an eyewitness that someone was in an area and/or their cell phone pinged a tower nearby are enough to have people on death row.
The system is supposedly set up so 1000 guilty men go free, than 1 innocent be locked up.
I'm not naive enough to believe it's ever practiced, but it's supposed to be the system.
I didn't say he was fed any false information, they fed him information that they already knew to be correct. I'm also referring to his confession that was given in March, not his initial interviews back in November. By the time of his confession the major facts of the case were already well known by the police. The story that Brendan tells is clearly not supported by the evidence they already have, and they know that, so that is why they correct him at key points.
I've already said that Dassey's innocence or guilt has no bearing on the evidence against Avery. I don't connect both of them and insist that they must both be guilty or they must both be innocent. The evidence in the case is heavily weighted against Steven Avery, but not so much against Brendan Dassey. Dassey's confession was not needed to get a conviction of Avery, nor did it help prove Avery's innocence. It only served to doom Brendan to a life in prison.
So it really doesn't matter to me one way or the other if Brendan was involved or not.
Does Avery guilt depend on the body being burned in his fire pit the day she died?
DragonLady
Illuminator
- Joined
- Jun 20, 2003
- Messages
- 4,615
I
I don't think we have to throw it out or ignore it for the sake of discussion, but the jury should've thrown it out. We have rules of evidence for a reason, and once it was disclosed the DNA evidence was compromised that should've been "reasonable doubt".
I don't think we have to throw it out or ignore it for the sake of discussion, but the jury should've thrown it out. We have rules of evidence for a reason, and once it was disclosed the DNA evidence was compromised that should've been "reasonable doubt".
There was nothing that compromised any of the DNA testing. The blood in Halbach's car and Averys own car tested positive for his DNA. There was no EDTA present in those blood stains hence it could not have come from the blood vial that MTSO were in possession of. It came from the cut on Avery's finger.
Furthermore Avery made no mention of "blood missing from his sink" in any of the recorded jail calls, nor did he tell Strang or Buting about it in 05/06 either. Its just a ludicrous idea Zellner made up for a TV show.
Last edited:
Hmmm, who to believe, you or the renowned forensic and DNA expert Chris Halkidis........
Not sure if you are being ironic but the edta is the invisible hand for Manitowoc.Hmmm, who to believe, you or the renowned forensic and DNA expert Chris Halkidis........
So Steven Avery planted the cremains by his shed?
Hmmm, who to believe, you or the renowned forensic and DNA expert Chris Halkidis........
I am only going by what the experts involved in this case have concluded.
Chris_Halkides
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2009
- Messages
- 12,576
one of the side effects of tunnel vision
I broadly agree with what you wrote. Yet, I have two reservations. The first is that the defense is not required to provide this, nor do they necessarily have the resources to do so. The second is that if the investigators have tunnel vision, they will not develop evidentiary leads that fail to line up with their suppositions. That is why I am in general hesitant to draw strong conclusions based on the apparent absence of alternative explanations.
Since he had a bonfire behind his shed for over eight hours that night and his next door neighbour said he helped Steven Avery place the body onto that fire. I guess you could say that.
Last edited: