Moderated Money/inequalities - Part 3 / Poll - willing to work for free?

[Leftus]

Let me neighbor up the questions and answer them:
(1) Don't you feel stressed about your neighbor losing their job, (2) their obligation to perform at work, (3) to not be able to make their payments at the end of the month, (4) about not being able to have food on the table for their family, (5) to not be able to pay for their health care, (6)university for their children. (7) All that can be avoided by the abolition of money.


1 - Nope. I don't even know what they do. Really none of my business. As a matter of privacy, they have no idea what I do either.
2 - Nope. I'm not their employer. If they aren't performing at their job, or don't like what they are doing, I would help them find a new job, but beyond that, it's on them.
3 - Nope. As little as I am involved in their job life, I'm certainly not involved in their financial lives. If they asked, I'd help, but I'm not going to insert myself into their books.
4 - Nope. This is also a budgetary issues. So, no, I'm not balancing their checkbook so I can't speak to their grocery budget.
5 - Nope. I can't imagine the entitlement I'd have to have to make health care choices for them.
6 - The only involvement I have in the education of their children is paying my property taxes. Beyond that, it's their choice on how to manage their money.
7 - Only in the sense they won't have a job, or food, or an education. Or children as they would have died from malnutrition or disease.

The only time I ever had any impact on the financial health of anyone not me or my friends when I was in Collections for the IRS. I've talked with, and probably helped, more people out of financial troubles than you can imagine.

Have you inserted your nose into the lives of your friends and neighbors? Howe much do they make? Are they eating the right foods? Are they planning properly enough for the educational desires of their kids? If you don't know, by your own standards, you are not a person of value, right?

I'll make the offer again, expecting it to be ignored. If you need help with your budget, sometimes talking it out helps, or career advice, there are plenty of people here who are willing to help.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

People of values worry more about their neighbour than themself.

In your world without money, if my neighbours take more food than they need or take only luxury foods, I'm supposed to show disapproval to embarrass them and make them behave better. (I think that's what you said but please correct me if I'm wrong.)

Well, how am I expected to know what food they eat?

Or, from another perspective, when I see someone in the shop taking enough to feed six people for a week, how am I supposed to know if he's a really greedy, wasteful person I should disapprove of or if he's genuinely collecting a week's food for a large family?

 

[Leftus]

Well, how am I expected to know what food they eat?

Hey, these bacon wrapped filet mignon aren't just good, but good for you.

But that raises an interesting question, I once dealt with someone who was supposedly feeding his family a gluten free diet, not because of any medical condition, but because he didn't want to risk his kid developing such a condition.

But, yeah, there are plenty of, let's call them food myths out there. GMO Free, gluten free, organic. Each come with additional costs. Even without money, each of them consume additional resources in land and labor. But in his insane world, these additional costs disappear. and it's all the same.

Where I live, there are probably a million people in the city limits alone. How am I supposed to know the dietary restrictions or requirements of everyone? If I see Mark Calaway (aka WWE The Undertaker) in the store, loading up his cart, am I permitted, after getting an autograph, to rummage through his cart to see if his grocery list meets MY approval? It could happen. His fault, I guess, for not using curbside or delivery.

I'm not a trained dietician, chef or baker. I could give some advice, but to assume my judgement is better than yours is hubris to say the least. I'm a decent cook, and could offer some opinions and tips on how I make certain meals, but they aren't anything better than what you'd find on the internet (which is where I found them, more often than not).

 

[Gaetan]

1 - Nope. I don't even know what they do. Really none of my business. As a matter of privacy, they have no idea what I do either.
2 - Nope. I'm not their employer. If they aren't performing at their job, or don't like what they are doing, I would help them find a new job, but beyond that, it's on them.
3 - Nope. As little as I am involved in their job life, I'm certainly not involved in their financial lives. If they asked, I'd help, but I'm not going to insert myself into their books.
4 - Nope. This is also a budgetary issues. So, no, I'm not balancing their checkbook so I can't speak to their grocery budget.
5 - Nope. I can't imagine the entitlement I'd have to have to make health care choices for them.
6 - The only involvement I have in the education of their children is paying my property taxes. Beyond that, it's their choice on how to manage their money.
7 - Only in the sense they won't have a job, or food, or an education. Or children as they would have died from malnutrition or disease.

The only time I ever had any impact on the financial health of anyone not me or my friends when I was in Collections for the IRS. I've talked with, and probably helped, more people out of financial troubles than you can imagine.

''i'' ''i'' ''i'', what about them

 

[Joe Random]

''i'' ''i'' ''i'', what about them

Cash-free society won't protect you from giant ants.

 

[Leftus]

''i'' ''i'' ''i'', what about them

You might want to re-read what I wrote. You can't honestly ask ME about how I think about something, and take exception to answering it how I feel about it.

I don't think you could be more dishonest. you originally asked US how WE felt. Then pretended that you asked us how our neighbors felt, which is a lie, but whatever.

But for your edification:

1 - Nope. I don't even know what they do. Really none of my business. As a matter of privacy, they have no idea what I do either.
2 - Nope. I'm not their employer. If they aren't performing at their job, or don't like what they are doing, I would help them find a new job, but beyond that, it's on them.
3 - Nope. As little as I am involved in their job life, I'm certainly not involved in their financial lives. If they asked, I'd help, but I'm not going to insert myself into their books.
4 - Nope. This is also a budgetary issues. So, no, I'm not balancing their checkbook so I can't speak to their grocery budget.
5 - Nope. I can't imagine the entitlement I'd have to have to make health care choices for them.
6 - The only involvement I have in the education of their children is paying my property taxes. Beyond that, it's their choice on how to manage their money.
7 - Only in the sense they won't have a job, or food, or an education. Or children as they would have died from malnutrition or disease.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

I don't think you could be more dishonest.

In a world without money, you don't need to be honest.

You just take what you want and the tight-knit community of the small imaginary village you live in will correct you with glowers of disapproval if you're getting greedy.

You see, taking away money magically gets rid of large, anonymous towns and cities and replaces them with neat little communities where everyone knows everyone else and their business, right down to the meals they eat.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

''i'' ''i'' ''i'', what about them

Do you express your disapproval to your neighbours if they eat too much or buy expensive things you don't think they really needed?

Just out of curiosity, what did your neighbours eat last night?

 

[Leftus]

Do you express your disapproval to your neighbours if they eat too much or buy expensive things you don't think they really needed?

Just out of curiosity, what did your neighbours eat last night?

How about Gaetan answer his own damn questions? He is our neighbor after all, so such information he should be willing to make available.

(1) Does Gaetan feel stressed about losing his job, (2) his obligation to perform at work, (3) to not be able to make his payments at the end of the month, (4) about not being able to have food on the table for his family, (5) to not be able to pay for his health care, (6) university for his children.

And from there, we can find out how well of a steward he is with his own resources, and how he eats on his current budget.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

In a world without money, you don't need to be honest.

You just take what you want and the tight-knit community of the small imaginary village you live in will correct you with glowers of disapproval if you're getting greedy.

You see, taking away money magically gets rid of large, anonymous towns and cities and replaces them with neat little communities where everyone knows everyone else and their business, right down to the meals they eat.

That's a good point.

I live in a big city, in a house converted into a block of flats. I don't even know the other people in the HOUSE let alone any of my neighbours.

 

[Gaetan]

But when money will be abolished the loans that squeeze your neck will break off, won't you feel more safe not being a slave anymore.

 

[bruto]

But when money will be abolished the loans that squeeze your neck will break off, won't you feel more safe not being a slave anymore.

That might be true if I were one of those enslaved by loans, but I'm not. There is, of course, a good case for loan forgiveness and all sorts of reforms, but if there were no money at all, what would be the disincentive to prevent everyone from living beyond their means? No debt no matter what you want? Great, I'll take a bigger house and a nice new car, and why not a bigger TV?

Oh, wait...in the new moneyless society I suspect none of those things will continue to exist. Why would anyone make a luxury car? That's much better. Everyone can live in a high rise and drive a Trabant.

 

[Leftus]

But when money will be abolished the loans that squeeze your neck will break off, won't you feel more safe not being a slave anymore.

When are you going to live up to your own standards? Answer your own questions. Share your own details. Funny that you don't. It's a tacit admission that you know what you are proposing won't work.

(1) Does Gaetan feel stressed about losing his job, (2) his obligation to perform at work, (3) to not be able to make his payments at the end of the month, (4) about not being able to have food on the table for his family, (5) to not be able to pay for his health care, (6) university for his children.

Also, if you could post your current budget, that would be great. Mortgage, if you have one, and any car notes you are carrying. We are supposed to be concerned about our neighbors, right? If I don't know that about you, a neighbor, how could I possibly care about the questions you posed?

Ill go first, I take home 2550 every two weeks after taxes and various deductions, including the 5% for retirement. So that's 5100 every month, give or take. My house note is 1590, but I pay 1890 to take some time off the loan. It's at 4%. I could refi, sure, but I may be moving in a year so not worth it. 400 a month for the Maserati. Camaro is free and clear, 180 a month for house, car and umbrella insurance. Another 300 a month for energy. That's a running total of 2770. So, basically, 2 weeks pay covers my expenses, not counting food. According to my banking app, I earn 650ish more than I spend every month.

Job wise, I'm a fed (IRS). 13-3, climbed my way up the ranks, to middleish non-managerial roles and any more than that I'm not saying.

Your turn. We know you won't. But try it.

 

[Gaetan]

That's the syndrome of stockholm.

 

[bruto]

Details not necessary here, but I have plenty of money and no debt. I have owned a mortgage free house for over 30 years, paid cash for my car etc.

This does not mean I'm a great fan of the way the current economic system works, nor does it mean that I spurn or ignore the many for whom it is unfair and burdensome. What it does mean is that empty promises and ignorant demagoguery have no pull.

I would welcome a better and more equitable system, but since such a system would almost certainly not benefit me personally, my interest is that such a system would actually work.

 

[Leftus]

That's the syndrome of stockholm.

Any reason you won't share what you think we should know about our neighbors? Or do you think your above that?

 

[Leftus]

Details not necessary here, but I have plenty of money and no debt. I have owned a mortgage free house for over 30 years, paid cash for my car etc.

This does not mean I'm a great fan of the way the current economic system works, nor does it mean that I spurn or ignore the many for whom it is unfair and burdensome. What it does mean is that empty promises and ignorant demagoguery have no pull.

I would welcome a better and more equitable system, but since such a system would almost certainly not benefit me personally, my interest is that such a system would actually work.

My point was that Gaetan wants us to be so deep in what our neighbors are doing it would be sharing details at an uncomfortable level. A level, he himself, will not share. Also, there is no way we can check.

 

[abaddon]

Details not necessary here, but I have plenty of money and no debt. I have owned a mortgage free house for over 30 years, paid cash for my car etc.

This does not mean I'm a great fan of the way the current economic system works, nor does it mean that I spurn or ignore the many for whom it is unfair and burdensome. What it does mean is that empty promises and ignorant demagoguery have no pull.

I would welcome a better and more equitable system, but since such a system would almost certainly not benefit me personally, my interest is that such a system would actually work.

Outside the finer details, I am in a similar position. Hell, I don't even own a credit card at this point, Roughly ten ish years ago, I realised that I was effectively walking around with 40K in my wallet between corporate and personal cards. So I paid all of them off and terminated them. Enough of the punitive credit rates. Can't say I miss them. Now, I simply have a debit card. If I don't have the cash in my account I can't pay it so I don't. But I do. So it is not a concern.

I am beginning to approach a change of car. I can extract a few more years out of the current jalopy, but not that many. When that time comes, I will get a sweet deal. Cash sale up front. Sales guys like insta cash. I know car salesfolks like to upsell the lease, HP, whatever because they make like a bandit on that, but hand them a wad and they instantly keel over.

It is my intention to never again carry any debt of any sort. I might make an exception if something exceptional arose. If.

Anyway, I was channel surfing one late night, and caught a legit ad from a loan company in the UK on some channel I happened upon. I have a habit of reading the small print, even on TV ads because they are required to put that up their.

I thought I read 1273% APR in that small print. No way. I must have imagined that or misread it or something.

A few nights later, same ad, so I paid attention. The disclaimer flips so fast you know they are hiding something.

Now I was paying attention, so at the third go about, yep 1273% APR it was.

And still is. And there are those with higher APR rates, it turns out.

The guy in question in the ad had his fridge fail while he was on his way to work. His wife calls him in panic about all the spoilt food. Oh Whoa.

We have the solution. Order a spanking new fridge at 1273% apr.

Well, no. For starters, If I had such a disaster, I would immediately have all my frozen distributed around my neighbours and friends, so that would evaporate as an excuse immediately. And I would do the same for them.

Gaetan might attempt to claim that many neighbours do not have that facility or even inclination. Which is an odd claim given that all my neighbours will rock out in support. For example, when I comprehensively shattered my ankle and had to go for surgery, post op, when I was initially on a zimmer, then crutches, then one of those mad ski boots, I was unable to eat the amount of prepared meals that apparently came at me on a ballistic arc. But they all mucked in. It was touching. I would do the same.

When I got as far in rehab, my business partner would pick me up and bring me to the office. The very same guy who, when I was pre-op, arrived with a brand new dressing gown, t-shirts, 8 pairs of underpants, and an entire personal hygiene kit because I had been hauled out in a firemans lift and had nothing with me.

It is that kind of thing that identifies those who care and those who do not.

Those who do not like Gaetan. Because in his messed up world I would have died in agony. In Gaetan's world, there would be no schools or academies for EMTs, not universities for doctors

In Gaetan's mad world. I would be dead already. On the floor in my own home.

And Gaetan wants that, oh yes.

 

[Gaetan]

That is useless to discuss with a bunch of rich people to get rid of money.

 

[Little 10 Toes]

Please define "rich". Please explain how property ownership applies in your fantasy. You keep running away when people want to address you lack of thoughts. Or will you continue to runaway and change the subject?

Why aren't you on Facebook posting your own ideas?