Split Thread Tearing Down Statues Associated With Racial Injustice

[Gilbert Syndrome]

Not just statues coming down. It was just reported that Aunt Jemimah and also Uncle Ben's foods will be renamed and not use black personifications as their brand image.

Goodbye Aunt Jemimah syrup and goodbye Uncle Ben's rice.

Baffling if true, but not surprising.

 

[Earthborn]

... I suspect they were originally chosen because of certain accepted stereotypes of the times.

That's exactly why they were chosen. Still… Putting a friendly brown face on a generally positive thing that people who would perhaps be unlikely to ever see a black person other than on crime shows, and even giving them familial names, that may be a thing that has done more good than harm. Casting Mavis Beacon as a black woman was masterstroke, IMHO.

Aunt Jemimah definitely looks too much like a stereotype, but some tweaking of the logo could make a her look much more like a person. Would be nice if Jemimah and Ben appeared in commercials giving them funny and smart speaking roles.

That said, I'm a Northern European who can only absorb light if I make a concious effort, so I may not have a clue.

 

[Gilbert Syndrome]

Is it a bad thing?

Whilst you may think they are inoffensive because of familiarity I suspect they were originally chosen because of certain accepted stereotypes of the times. Think of "Mammy" as portrayed in the movie "Gone with the wind", the similar character in Tom & Jerry cartoons and so on.

The only time I personally would perhaps consider such a change to be silly would be if they were actual people from the time such as the founder of the company.

Were either real people?

Without knowing the history of Uncle Ben, I do have to wonder what is supposedly racist about it. There's a Mexican woman on my bottles of Cholula and an Indian woman on many of my curry jars... My entire cupboard is seemingly racist.

 

[Gilbert Syndrome]

I read that an underlying problem is with the use of "Aunt" and "Uncle". It was described as being how white people once referred to (slave) black people. They weren't called "Mrs." or "Miss" or "Mr." That was considered too dignified and so it was just to be Aunt and Uncle depending on gender.

So it seems that black Ben has to go because he is not Ben; he is Uncle Ben.

In Singapore, calling people aunt and uncle is the norm. My brother has to call the man and woman that maintain his apartment block auntie and uncle, it's just what they do there, for some reason.

Frankly, I hate when people call me boss, it happens a lot at work, and is always weird to me. I'm nobodies boss, it's just a strange new way people refer to each other, and many many black guys use it. I'm happy with the simple "mate" or "love."

 

[Gilbert Syndrome]

People are so scared to put their foot in it these days and have someone accuse them of being racist, or sexist, or discriminatory, it's just hilarious how awkward we are as a society.

George Carlin said it best: words are neutral, it's entirely about context.

 

[Darat]

It's quite common in the parts of the UK I've had contact with.

Half of my aunts and uncles were (lots dead now) family friends, cousins of some other relative and so on, same for my nephew and niece many of their uncle and aunts are friends of the family and so on.

 

[Darat]

Without knowing the history of Uncle Ben, I do have to wonder what is supposedly racist about it. There's a Mexican woman on my bottles of Cholula and an Indian woman on many of my curry jars... My entire cupboard is seemingly racist.

Why are the Mexican and curry containers racist?

 

[Gilbert Syndrome]

Why are the Mexican and curry containers racist?

I suppose for the same reason my Uncle Ben's rice is. I dunno, I'm not really claiming they're racist, I'm just assuming they are. If poor old Uncle Ben, be he fictional or otherwise, is now being regarded as a no-go, then surely the happy Mexican lady on my Cholula bottle is exactly the same deal, as well the smiling Indian woman on my curry jar, or the Chinese man on my Hoi-Sin sauce bottle. All seems a bit daft to me, but there you go.

 

[Darat]

In Singapore, calling people aunt and uncle is the norm. My brother has to call the man and woman that maintain his apartment block auntie and uncle, it's just what they do there, for some reason.

Frankly, I hate when people call me boss, it happens a lot at work, and is always weird to me. I'm nobodies boss, it's just a strange new way people refer to each other, and many many black guys use it. I'm happy with the simple "mate" or "love."

Boss used colloquially was widespread when I was a kid, market stall holders would say “can I help boss?” and so on so that means at least many decades.

 

[Darat]

I suppose for the same reason my Uncle Ben's rice is. I dunno, I'm not really claiming they're racist, I'm just assuming they are. If poor old Uncle Ben, be he fictional or otherwise, is now being regarded as a no-go, then surely the happy Mexican lady on my Cholula bottle is exactly the same deal, as well the smiling Indian woman on my curry jar, or the Chinese man on my Hoi-Sin sauce bottle. All seems a bit daft to me, but there you go.

Could you bung up a few photos of them or point to their websites, be curious to use it as a bit of research into how such images are viewed and came to be used.

 

[Meadmaker]

Without knowing the history of Uncle Ben, I do have to wonder what is supposedly racist about it. There's a Mexican woman on my bottles of Cholula and an Indian woman on many of my curry jars... My entire cupboard is seemingly racist.

The Wikipedia article didn't go too deeply into it.

The brand was introduced in 1946. Rice was never a staple of the American diet. I know that most of what was grown in America was grown in Arkansas and Louisiana. "Uncle Ben" was supposedly a farmer who grew really good rice. By 1946, farm mechanization was a thing and lots of people had been driven off the farm during the depression. I'm sure nostalgia played a part in the branding. On a small farm in Louisiana, I suspect that an old fashioned farmer would have looked a lot like Uncle Ben.

 

[Gilbert Syndrome]

Boss used colloquially was widespread when I was a kid, market stall holders would say “can I help boss?” and so on so that means at least many decades.

Yeah, I've heard it before, but it just seems more prominent now in this city, whereas I would mostly only hear it being used by Southerners. I don't generally feel comfortable being called boss, for some reason.

 

[Gilbert Syndrome]

Could you bung up a few photos of them or point to their websites, be curious to use it as a bit of research into how such images are viewed and came to be used.

If you Google Cholula hot sauce, the bottle's label features a Mexican woman amidst some peppers and tomatoes. Maysan curry packets have a Chinese bloke on the front in cartoon form, Minara's curry paste has an Indian woman on the cover, presumably Minara, herself, I've no idea. There's others that I can't really think of without rooting through my cupboards. I just don't really get why Uncle Ben is being labelled as somehow offensive when having a mascot for food packaging seems entirely universal, some featuring real people, some not.

 

[Gilbert Syndrome]

The Wikipedia article didn't go too deeply into it.

The brand was introduced in 1946. Rice was never a staple of the American diet. I know that most of what was grown in America was grown in Arkansas and Louisiana. "Uncle Ben" was supposedly a farmer who grew really good rice. By 1946, farm mechanization was a thing and lots of people had been driven off the farm during the depression. I'm sure nostalgia played a part in the branding. On a small farm in Louisiana, I suspect that an old fashioned farmer would have looked a lot like Uncle Ben.

Thank you for saving me a Wikipedia exploration! lol.

I don't get how any of it makes Uncle Ben's mascot appear to be racist, from that Wiki write-up, anyway.

I'll never forget Dick 'Tater's, a jacket potato eatery we had here that I think was a chain, it was absolutely hilarious, it took over a Chinese noodle place we all used to go to of a weekend as teens that was lovely, ran by a Chinese family and featuring a very questionable rendering of a Chinese man on the logo, in fact, I've just remembered the name: Wally Wong's!

 

[William Parcher]

I don't get how any of it makes Uncle Ben's mascot appear to be racist, from that Wiki write-up, anyway.

Avoid Wikipedia for this specific issue because it has not caught up with current events. Instead browse the various news articles about this so that you can read more specifically about what is going on right now.

The problem is that the name "Uncle Ben" is being associated with slavery in America. It doesn't matter that the use of Uncle is common throughout the world. It doesn't matter if YOU or anyone else can't figure out why it has to be eliminated. This is specifically an American issue directly related to the history of slavery in America and how modern culture deals with it.

Brits are going to say goodbye to Uncle Ben because of what's happening in America.

 

[Thermal]

If you Google Cholula hot sauce, the bottle's label features a Mexican woman amidst some peppers and tomatoes. Maysan curry packets have a Chinese bloke on the front in cartoon form, Minara's curry paste has an Indian woman on the cover, presumably Minara, herself, I've no idea. There's others that I can't really think of without rooting through my cupboards. I just don't really get why Uncle Ben is being labelled as somehow offensive when having a mascot for food packaging seems entirely universal, some featuring real people, some not.

I'd guess that because Aunt Jemima had the bandanna on her head before the rebranding with pearl earrings, it had a decidedly racist vibe, and Uncle Ben has a nearly identical portrayal (smiling up in the corner of the box in a circle), so it smacks of the same vibe.

 

[Meadmaker]

Avoid Wikipedia for this specific issue because it has not caught up with current events. Instead browse the various news articles about this so that you can read more specifically about what is going on right now.

The problem is that the name "Uncle Ben" is being associated with slavery in America. It doesn't matter that the use of Uncle is common throughout the world. It doesn't matter if YOU or anyone else can't figure out why it has to be eliminated. This is specifically an American issue directly related to the history of slavery in America and how modern culture deals with it.

Brits are going to say goodbye to Uncle Ben because of what's happening in America.

And....I have never heard of "Uncle" being associated with slavery. I can't say that I've paid close attention to all contemporary sources to figure out how people talked about slaves, but if "uncle" and "aunt" have any connection to slavery, I somehow have missed it.

The closest thing I know is an "Uncle Tom" is a black person who accepts white supremacy. That's from the book "Uncle Tom's Cabin" which I have not read, and I suspect darned few Americans ever have read, although we would recognize that it is, indeed, a book about a black guy referred to as "Uncle Tom". I had always assumed that it was because the title character was named Tom, and was someone's uncle, and he had a cabin.

ETA: I've seen similar things happen many times. There is some phrase, word, picture, or whatever that is in common use, and someone invents a "history" behind the phrase, and declares that the phrase now means whatever the history implies, and further use of it is now taboo. It doesn't even matter if the history is entirely fictitious.

We saw an example earlier in this thread. Black Boy Tavern in Bristol, named because it was near the slave market, except that there was never a slave market, and it was actually a reference to King Charles II. Never mind that. Because it could be taken as racist, it's racist. QED.

 

[Darat]

And....I have never heard of "Uncle" being associated with slavery. I can't say that I've paid close attention to all contemporary sources to figure out how people talked about slaves, but if "uncle" and "aunt" have any connection to slavery, I somehow have missed it.

The closest thing I know is an "Uncle Tom" is a black person who accepts white supremacy. That's from the book "Uncle Tom's Cabin" which I have not read, and I suspect darned few Americans ever have read, although we would recognize that it is, indeed, a book about a black guy referred to as "Uncle Tom". I had always assumed that it was because the title character was named Tom, and was someone's uncle, and he had a cabin.

"Uncle Tom^WP"

.... This led to the use of Uncle Tom – often shortened to just Tom – as a derogatory epithet for an exceedingly subservient person or house negro, particularly one aware of their own lower-class racial status....​

 

[Meadmaker]

"Uncle Tom^WP"

.... This led to the use of Uncle Tom – often shortened to just Tom – as a derogatory epithet for an exceedingly subservient person or house negro, particularly one aware of their own lower-class racial status....​

Note that it was shortened to "Tom", not to "Uncle".

 

[William Parcher]

Aunt Jemimah definitely looks too much like a stereotype, but some tweaking of the logo could make a her look much more like a person. Would be nice if Jemimah and Ben appeared in commercials giving them funny and smart speaking roles.

That said, I'm a Northern European who can only absorb light if I make a concious effort, so I may not have a clue.

Her image has been tweaked at least twice before...

In 1968, she was slimmed down from her previous appearance, depicting a more “svelte” look and wearing a white collar and geometric print “headband” still resembling her previous kerchief.

In 1989, as she marked her 100th anniversary, her image was again updated, with all head-covering removed, revealing wavy, gray-streaked hair and gold-trimmed pearl earrings and replacing her plain white collar with lace. At the time, the revised image was described as a move towards a more “sophisticated” depiction, with Quaker marketing the change as giving her “a more contemporary look” and which remains on the products as of 2020.

Outside the United States, the character still has her original mammy personality in advertisements and she is still referred to as the Aunt...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aunt_Jemima