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Cont: The Trump Presidency: Part 22

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I'm retired after a forty year career as an engineer. In that time I met an astounding number of engineers who believed ridiculous stuff despite being totally competent at their jobs. Pretty much every conspiracy theory you can imagine, as well as fundamentalism and its subset, creationism.

A physics lecturer at my university kept a collection over the years of communications he had with folk trying to peddle crank physics theories to him. He once gave a public lecture in which he presented them, it was pretty hilarious.

The majority of those who sent him their crank theories identified themselves as engineers (no offense to the technical community).
 
I'm retired after a forty year career as an engineer. In that time I met an astounding number of engineers who believed ridiculous stuff despite being totally competent at their jobs. Pretty much every conspiracy theory you can imagine, as well as fundamentalism and its subset, creationism.

You and me both (well, 35 years for me).

Did you ever speculate about why that is? After all, engineers, more than most people, live in a world of provable facts: If you get the numbers wrong the bridge falls down. Why doesn't that extend to other areas?

Partly, I suppose, it's because it's a profession where conservatism is built in. You design things with factors of safety so they don't fail. That may extend to political and religious conservatism. Here's a discussion from Rational Wiki; sorry for the derail.
 
A physics lecturer at my university kept a collection over the years of communications he had with folk trying to peddle crank physics theories to him. He once gave a public lecture in which he presented them, it was pretty hilarious.

The majority of those who sent him their crank theories identified themselves as engineers (no offense to the technical community).

That's the "I can't define it, quantify it, or design a test that demonstrates it, but I'm sure it's true because it all makes sense to me" school of scientific thought.
 
A physics lecturer at my university kept a collection over the years of communications he had with folk trying to peddle crank physics theories to him. He once gave a public lecture in which he presented them, it was pretty hilarious.

The majority of those who sent him their crank theories identified themselves as engineers (no offense to the technical community).

There's a thread in the Science forum about a company called Brilliant Light Power, which is a scam seeking investors in order to develop what is essentially a cold fusion/overunity device. For a few years I've been reading a couple of fora populated with believers, and a fair proportion of them are engineers.
 
Partly, I suppose, it's because it's a profession where conservatism is built in. You design things with factors of safety so they don't fail. That may extend to political and religious conservatism. Here's a discussion from Rational Wiki; sorry for the derail.

As far as conspiracy theories go, engineers are like other people (maybe more so) - they want to be in the know about things others don't know.
 
Even now he has 40% job approval (45% in a suspect Rasmussen poll). I don't think I'm underestimating the general population.

Edited to add.

Pretty much everyone I interact with socially has a degree or equivalent. I simply don't see enough of the bottom two quartiles to judge how competent and/or easily swayed they are.

Certainly overheard snippets of conversation in pubs are not encouraging. IIRC Captain Swoop inhabits pubs with similar clientele.

Yes? I may be mistaken. Of course, I have no idea of US conditions, but people are people. Where I am, mad politicians have far lower approval
rates. As in single digits.

Hans
 
You know that, I know that, but enough of the US population may not know that to make them think that Donald Trump is some kind of economic genius and hence forget all about the last few months. :mad:

You really don't get how Amereican politics work, for all you post about it.
Fact If you are a party nominee or a sitting US Presidkent you will get 40 to 45% of the vote automatically, no matter what.Even if people don't really like you, they will vote for you out of party loyalty and "he might be bad, but not as bad as the other guy".
Frankly, your whole eeyore act is old.
 
I'm retired after a forty year career as an engineer. In that time I met an astounding number of engineers who believed ridiculous stuff despite being totally competent at their jobs. Pretty much every conspiracy theory you can imagine, as well as fundamentalism and its subset, creationism.

My last boss was a nurse who believed the "blood is blue but turns red when exposed to oxygen" crap. A freaking nurse. There are idiots everywhere. It's the one resource we're in no danger of running short of.

The Nurses I provide IT support for are by no means stupid, but critical thinking skills? Nope. There's isn't a piece of Woo-Woo nonsense the majority of them don't believe. They openly hock essential oils to each other, chat about their horoscopes, they are all super-religious within a rounding error, and most skew conservative politically.

Because they have skills, not knowledge. They can run perform (often complicated) procedures but they have no understanding of any biological process working.

It's why they are such... challenging users to provide IT support. They "know" in the absolute loosest terms how to perform route, memorized steps on a computer, but they don't know how a computer works enough to actually "use" a computer in any meaningful sense of the term.

I'd wager we see the same thing with Engineers. I'd put money on the table that the ones who sling the most woo are the ones who work in the most applied parts of engineering.

But the simple title of "Engineer" or "Nurse" gives them an air of authority to a broader discipline they might not have earned.
 

That's a good illustration of Trump's language (in)ability. Nobody has a "strong" criminal problem, they might have a "serious" criminal problem. But "strong", like "beautiful", is one of his stock adjectives that he goes with when he wants to emphasize something. Or, sometimes, when he is describing something he'll throw in one of his stock words just because it's in his vocabulary.
 
What are the sides in the potential Civil War Episode II?
Antifa vs boogaloos? (Boogaloos being the all encompassing term for ammosexual right wing, "Come and take it!", Seal Team 6 LARPers...)

Those who are against the government being overbearing and are against the government not treating everyone equally vs people standing up for the government?

Or will the boogaloos just fight against Antifa, while, not necessarily, being on the government's side?

FWIW, you can mostly eliminate Antifa from the equation. The Republicans tend to scream bloody murder about Antifa primarily as a tactical distraction and to scare the people listening to them, generally with little to no basis for their claims in reality. Of note, overall, Antifa lacks organization, backing, numbers, any significant media support, murderous tendencies, and so very much more of relevance for them to count as a side.

The boogaloos, of course, have been engaging in and and pushing for more domestic terrorism as they try to spark war, perhaps generally failing to understand how little appetite for such an overwhelming portion of the population has or perhaps hoping that that will lead to a coup going effectively unchallenged.

A more plausibly dangerous scenario is likely to be more like what happened in Chile. A decently functioning democracy overthrown primarily for the sake of giving more power to the rich and corporate interests and preventing a move feared by those rich and corporate interests towards Chile becoming more socialistic.
 
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The Nurses I provide IT support for are by no means stupid, but critical thinking skills? Nope. There's isn't a piece of Woo-Woo nonsense the majority of them don't believe. They openly hock essential oils to each other, chat about their horoscopes, they are all super-religious within a rounding error, and most skew conservative politically.

Because they have skills, not knowledge. They can run perform (often complicated) procedures but they have no understanding of any biological process working.

It's why they are such... challenging users to provide IT support. They "know" in the absolute loosest terms how to perform route, memorized steps on a computer, but they don't know how a computer works enough to actually "use" a computer in any meaningful sense of the term.

I'd wager we see the same thing with Engineers. I'd put money on the table that the ones who sling the most woo are the ones who work in the most applied parts of engineering.

But the simple title of "Engineer" or "Nurse" gives them an air of authority to a broader discipline they might not have earned.

This.

My official title is 'Quality and Purchasing Administrator', but it really means, 'Person Who Can Apply Critical Thinking and Data Analysis' (including work in the material labs and writing reports/running data for them, I literally have THREE desks). Some of the terms are different but a LOT of the process of auditing a process or documentation is getting people with full on Master's Degrees (and two Dr.) in Engineering to apply critical thinking. One Packaging Engineer, good kid and actually pretty bright, I needed to explain three times that he had to conduct testing on the current packaging before testing the changes he made because he didn't have control data to compare the change to. I have to constantly explain that I can't give them their data analysis back in a normal distribution because the data didn't fit a normal distribution (and yes, I know several of the transformations that can be applied but usually they shouldn't be used on the data I'm running for many reasons, the primary being the sets tend to be small).

Getting them to document their changes is hard enough, getting them to explain their reasoning can be pulling teeth. Electrical Engineers tend to be the worst in my experience. They DON'T KNOW the 'why', they just know the math.

Hell, two of the directors were impressed as hell when I advocated for a specific test of materials because it yielded direct empirical data on the strength of sample brazing over another test that relied on proxy data to infer the strength, and were even more impressed that I used such 'proper' terms. These gentlemen work with full on Engineers who didn't catch which test was better and didn't know the word 'inference'.

And to bring this back on topic, that's how a lot of Trump supports mentally model the world to work. Truth isn't determined by analysis of the evidence, but on personal authority. 'I'm an Engineer, and I'm right.' 'I'm a nurse, so I know health.' 'I'm a great business man and I have the best words.' 'I support Trump so he must be right.'

People otherwise capable of performing tasks that generally need keen intelligence who downright refuse to apply that ability outside a narrow range.
 
Trump Retweeted most of his tweets from the last few days.

I won't bother putting them up again.
 
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Trump Retweeted

Ja'RonSmith45
@JaRonSmith45

“What speaks louder than anything are the words of the executive order. It accounted for ways that we can reform our system in a positive way along with law enforcement. We had law enforcement leaders and families together so this was a watershed moment for America
 
The Nurses I provide IT support for are by no means stupid, but critical thinking skills? Nope. There's isn't a piece of Woo-Woo nonsense the majority of them don't believe. They openly hock essential oils to each other, chat about their horoscopes, they are all super-religious within a rounding error, and most skew conservative politically.



Because they have skills, not knowledge. They can run perform (often complicated) procedures but they have no understanding of any biological process working.



It's why they are such... challenging users to provide IT support. They "know" in the absolute loosest terms how to perform route, memorized steps on a computer, but they don't know how a computer works enough to actually "use" a computer in any meaningful sense of the term.



I'd wager we see the same thing with Engineers. I'd put money on the table that the ones who sling the most woo are the ones who work in the most applied parts of engineering.



But the simple title of "Engineer" or "Nurse" gives them an air of authority to a broader discipline they might not have earned.



Boy does this ring a bell.
 
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