Venezuela Oil Program

peptoabysmal said:
Massachusetts... interesting choice to start giving to the needy.
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I don't see what's interesting about it. The percentage of hispanic children living in low-income families is similar to other states in the region, and the ratio of low-income hispanic children to low-income children in general is lower.

I do think it's interesting that after having been rightly skeptical, some of Chavez' detractors have seamlessly shifted, in the face of fulfillment of his promise, from skepticism to unwarranted hanging implications.
 
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Cleon said:
Well, much skepticism was expressed about whether Chavez' claims of sending heating oil to poor communities in the US was all just smoke in mirrors.

Looks like it's actually happening.
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This seems more promising than the news stories that I've previously seen.

In another forum, I offered a tentative apology for proclaiming that it was just a stunt. I offer the same here.

It's only tentative, because I personally make a distinction betweeen "it has happened" and "it's really gonna happen this time," especially after a string of "it's gonna happen" news stories that didn't result in anything.
 
Newsflash: A key gasoline-making facility at a US refinery which Citgo co-owns with a US company has, after much Katrina delay which was exacerbated by a fire, restarted. This should allow existing refining capacity which was making gasoline to switch over to heating oil as is usual this late in the season. That, in turn, should make it easier for Chavez to follow through on his promises.

Anyone have an update? Somewhere I read that he was going to bring the program to New York, which led me to think about this: In New York, almost no poor people pay for heating oil. Heat is a cost absorbed by landlords here, and most poor are not property owners (the property ownership rate is probably lower here than even in most other cities because of our screwed up real estate market). Is it different in Boston? What about Chicago? I'm led to understand that Chicago is mostly a natural gas market, but do truly poor people even pay that or is the cost absorbed by landlords?
 
I love the way the author of this piece (link below) cites an "analyst" for his opinion, then quotes an oil economist and former ExxonMobil exec expressing the traditional concerns of the corporate sector for the welfare of the poor, i.e., utterly bogus and irrelevant.


quote:
"U.S. Congressman Jose Serrano, who helped put the discounted heating oil program together, said he was trying to do the best for his community in the Bronx.

"To those folks who say that this is a way for Hugo Chavez to score political points, I invite every American corporation that wants to score points with my community, to start scoring points this afternoon,'' he said."
http://today.reuters.com/investing/..._N06388507_RTRIDST_0_ENERGY-USA-VENEZUELA.XML


Nicely said Congressman.
I know little about Mr Serrano, but get the feeling I'd like the guy:)
 
Reuters said:
The organizers say landlords' savings, which could run into the millions of dollars, must be passed along to tenants.
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Again, this is a question I have. Landlords in New York don't pass on cost increases to tenants -- rent increases are decided annually and have already been set this year at 2.75% for one-year lease renewals and 5.5% for two-year renewals. Less (if any) in housing specifically set aside for the poor. So by what mechanism is this program anything other than a gift to landlords?
 
manny said:
Again, this is a question I have. Landlords in New York don't pass on cost increases to tenants -- rent increases are decided annually and have already been set this year at 2.75% for one-year lease renewals and 5.5% for two-year renewals. Less (if any) in housing specifically set aside for the poor. So by what mechanism is this program anything other than a gift to landlords?
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Well, it is, but the landlords in question are three non-profit housing corporations. I'd say it's in the interest of the poor to ensure the continued viability of non-profit housing, even if they won't see any short-term benefits.
 
manny said:
What about Chicago? I'm led to understand that Chicago is mostly a natural gas market, but do truly poor people even pay that or is the cost absorbed by landlords?
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It depends. Most places the landlord is responsible for the heat, but many places (and most newer ones) have separate heat (each apt. has it's own furnace and gas meter). Generally, any apt. that has landlord-supplied heat is going to cost more per month ($100 - $200) than if the tenant is responsible. But the rent amount can't change during the lease term, so if gas goes way up the landlord has to eat it. And if it's a soft rental market higher gas prices doesn't necessarily mean the landlord can simply charge more for rent next year.
 
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