Split Thread Tearing Down Statues Associated With Racial Injustice

Myriad said:
"I demand you stop punching me."

"We need to discuss, who else would you expect me to stop punching?"
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This.

It's basically a third person version of the "All Lives Matter" argument and serves the same purpose.

It seems like white people have went from no wanting to talk about racism to drowning out talking about racism by talking about everything else.
 
JoeMorgue said:
This.

It's basically a third person version of the "All Lives Matter" argument and serves the same purpose.

It seems like white people have went from no wanting to talk about racism to drowning out talking about racism by talking about everything else.
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Just a reminder.

I think that the Confederate statues ought to be removed.

I do not think Columbus ought to be removed.

Both have been toppled recently by mobs with ropes. I don't think any statues ought to be removed by mobs with ropes.

That's what I'm talking about.

You? I don't know what you're talking about, because all you say is that other people shouldn't be talking about whatever it is that they're talking about.
 
Meadmaker said:
Just a reminder.

I think that the Confederate statues ought to be removed.

I do not think Columbus ought to be removed.

Both have been toppled recently by mobs with ropes. I don't think any statues ought to be removed by mobs with ropes.

That's what I'm talking about.

You? I don't know what you're talking about, because all you say is that other people shouldn't be talking about whatever it is that they're talking about.
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What did Columbus do worth honoring?
 
How dare these pisshead thick nazi scum wrap themselves in the Union Jack and pretend to be proud of our country. Literally pissing on the memorial to a police officer who died protecting parliament from a terrorist attack.
!
 
As I recall, one of the first things Columbus did upon meeting the native people of the New World was to speculate on what good slaves they'd make. Of course first he captured them at gunpoint and robbed them.
 
I have read that the tearing down of statues is the Orwellian rewriting of history. It's the opposite. It's telling the truth about history. Churchill was a racist and eugenicist. He hated the people of India. He fought a war for his own countries freedom and then repressed the freedom of those in the colonies.
 
bruto said:
As I recall, one of the first things Columbus did upon meeting the native people of the New World was to speculate on what good slaves they'd make. Of course first he captured them at gunpoint and robbed them.
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It only got worse as time went on.

He was removed as governor and (along with his brothers, it was a family enterprise) imprisoned briefly as too many reports to ignore came in describing his brutalization of crown subjects and natives alike.

Despite some initial claims of desire to proselytize, he was known to deny native converts baptism because enslaving them after that would invoke backlash from the clergy.

He was a power player. These expeditions cost money and loans and promises. He certainly, therefore, had every motive to exploit land and people to keep his head above water.
 
a_unique_person said:
Churchill was a racist and eugenicist. He hated the people of India. He fought a war for his own countries freedom and then repressed the freedom of those in the colonies.
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All of which is trumped by his greatness as a leader.

Neville Chamberlain (and many, many others) may have been none of those things (I don’t know or care) but he will always be judged by his incompetence as a leader.
 
We tore down a statue.
Hamilton
Not sure if this is new to thread.
I think this was a bad idea and I have not read the thread at all.
 
Delphic Oracle said:
They deserve the chance to be preserved in museums if there's enough interest.

How many expensive, well lit, and properly staffed museums full of assorted racist memorabilia do you think the market will bear?
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There's no need to build new, expensive buildings to house them. Museums already exist that can take them. They don't necessarily need to be well lit though. Turning most of the lights off and having barely legible text seems to be in vogue in certain museum exhibitions.

Many people are willing to work in museums, like the one I was at which was an entirely volunteer run organisation. So it being properly staffed wouldn't be an issue.

Apparently there were 1,600 museums in England alone, in 2011. So museums are obviously quite popular. Although that list may shrink due to the lockdown because many of them will rely on regular visitors and donations to survive.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_museums_in_England
 
ThatGuy11200 said:
There's no need to build new, expensive buildings to house them. Museums already exist that can take them. They don't necessarily need to be well lit though. Turning most of the lights off and having barely legible text seems to be in vogue in certain museum exhibitions.



Many people are willing to work in museums, like the one I was at which was an entirely volunteer run organisation. So it being properly staffed wouldn't be an issue.



Apparently there were 1,600 museums in England alone, in 2011. So museums are obviously quite popular. Although that list may shrink due to the lockdown because many of them will rely on regular visitors and donations to survive.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_museums_in_England
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I'll admit I'm only guessing, but I don't expect a lot of them salivating at the prospect of adding one of the (gently used :9) statues to their collections or widely advertising they have done so.

I expect their marketable value is such that someone would have to pay them to take it rather than the usual arrangement the other way around.

What would taking one do to their insurance?

Each specific point I bring up in this fashion might have a rebuttal, but the larger issue I'm getting at remains.

New museum or existing is a non sequitur. If the pieces will bring no additional traffic while also causing damage to reputation and other liabilities, who will take them?

Specific to the U.S., they only got awarded space by "cultural preservation" groups finding some ideologically aligned local politicians to set it up. Public money for pet projects is a whole different formula from needing ROI as a business or the even more esoteric maneuvers of a nonprofit/public benefit organization.
 
Darat said:
Another one I didn't know much about apart from popular culture knowledge. Disappointed to hear he repeatedly assaulted people, I would now say he is another that should not be commemorated with a statue etc.
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Well, those he assaulted were volunteers and were paid well. They even had the opportunity to resist the assaults but most failed to do so.

IMO Ali did provide a positive contribution to society due to the protest movements that resulted from his refusal to be drafted. Whether that justifies a statue is of no concern to me.
 
Steve said:
Well, those he assaulted were volunteers and were paid well. They even had the opportunity to resist the assaults but most failed to do so.



IMO Ali did provide a positive contribution to society due to the protest movements that resulted from his refusal to be drafted. Whether that justifies a statue is of no concern to me.
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He paid his wife? :confused
 
Steve said:
Well, those he assaulted were volunteers and were paid well. They even had the opportunity to resist the assaults but most failed to do so.

IMO Ali did provide a positive contribution to society due to the protest movements that resulted from his refusal to be drafted. Whether that justifies a statue is of no concern to me.
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Maybe a statue similar to Mr. Muscle, the armwrestling machine at carnivals, but for boxing.
 
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