Anarchy in Seattle--Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

[sir drinks-a-lot]

Republicans and the right wing (forgive me for repeating myself) need to create scary demons to frighten voters into supporting them. So they are constantly searching for some event or position that can be fictionalized appropriately. “Defund the police” is one of these - a catchphrase that can be twisted and fraudulently sold to many in the middle class as leaving them exposed to lawlessness.

CHAZ is another example of the reality failing to be frightening so it must be twisted and fictionalized to make it so. Ultimately the reality must be morphed to emerge as the message “Vote for Democrats and they will turn your neighborhood into Somalia.”

Sure, to do so takes an enormous amount of pure fabrication. Lies. Misleading, mislabeled, or completely fake photos. Untrue rumors blithely presented in headlines as accurate. But Fox News, the right wing blog sphere, the Republican leadership, etc. are a large and interlocking entity and will try their hardest to make it so. And it works. Just look at the statements presented as facts by the City Journal as quoted in the OP; I notice that similar distortions/lies by Fox News still remain up as banner headlines on the web no matter that they have been shown to be untrue since they were first posted. These false impressions certainly will become established as truths in the minds of many in the wider population.

Meh. It's elections season. have you not noticed the left leaning media "warping reality" at all? Really?

I haven't been following CHAZ (or social media) as closely as many probably are, but I'd wager it's essentially sort of like Burning Man right now. But with more people talking about 'organizing' and considering making 'demands'. There is definitely a humorous component in my view. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

You may want to also check out the Op-Ed the NYT ran recently, entitled "Yes, Mean Literally Abolish the Police". Would you characterize the NYT as twisting and defraudulently selling the actual point of view of that opinion writer?

 

[sts60]

Is it Mogadishu yet?

Clearly. The horror!

ETA: “The horror... with food trucks.”

 

[crescent]

I haven't been following CHAZ (or social media) as closely as many probably are, but I'd wager it's essentially sort of like Burning Man right now. But with more people talking about 'organizing' and considering making 'demands'. There is definitely a humorous component in my view.

1) If you did follow this on social media, you would see just that. That's pretty close to what is actually happening.

2) You would also see numerous reports of downtown Seattle under control of a communist warlord, who has declared independence from the U.S., set up armed checkpoints (including requiring ID), extorting protection money from businesses, enforcing control with heavily armed guards. Reports of mass rape and assault within that area.


#1 is backed by on-scene reports.
#2 is completely fictional.

#2 is getting much more coverage and is widely believed. Maybe about 5:1 on twitter. It's not even close. Right wing talk radio seems to be running with it non-stop, it keeps getting echoed by Republican politicians.

And the believers of #2 are DEMANDING that the government resume control. The president is echoing that demand. They are demanding that force be used, including bloodshed, if that is needed, to fight against this #2 scenario - a scenario which isn't actually happening. That includes the president, who has threatened to send in the military if the governor or mayor doesn't do it quickly enough.

People (many of them, including our President) want to use military force against our own citizens, based on fiction. That's worrisome.

 

[Giordano]

Meh. It's elections season. have you not noticed the left leaning media "warping reality" at all? Really?

I haven't been following CHAZ (or social media) as closely as many probably are, but I'd wager it's essentially sort of like Burning Man right now. But with more people talking about 'organizing' and considering making 'demands'. There is definitely a humorous component in my view. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

You may want to also check out the Op-Ed the NYT ran recently, entitled "Yes, Mean Literally Abolish the Police". Would you characterize the NYT as twisting and defraudulently selling the actual point of view of that opinion writer?

It is an Op-Ed clearly presenting the view of one person, the writer, Mariame Kaba, whose opinions represent one extreme of the spectrum on the defund the police supporters. It is not attempting to twist the views of the many others supporting “defund the police” into a call for elimination of all police. It is not an attempt to reduce and distort the calls for a bottom to top restructuring of public safety into a call for anarchy and lawlessness. Ms Kaba herself presents a view of what organizations should replace the police, rather than a simplistic call for elimination of public oversight and safety.

Frankly I haven’t noticed “the left leaning media” warping reality much at all this election season. If anything I’ve seen them try to be as unbiased as possible while under personal and systematic attack and threat. But then Trump and his supporters spin their own reality so much it is difficult for them to recognize actual facts when they trip over them.

But this is another, “Yeah? Well, what about them?” effort and I refuse to take the bait. My point about the evil lies and intentional fictions spun by the Republicans and right wing media stand unrefuted by your post.

 

[Giordano]

1) If you did follow this on social media, you would see just that. That's pretty close to what is actually happening.

2) You would also see numerous reports of downtown Seattle under control of a communist warlord, who has declared independence from the U.S., set up armed checkpoints (including requiring ID), extorting protection money from businesses, enforcing control with heavily armed guards. Reports of mass rape and assault within that area.


#1 is backed by on-scene reports.
#2 is completely fictional.

#2 is getting much more coverage and is widely believed. Maybe about 5:1 on twitter. It's not even close. Right wing talk radio seems to be running with it non-stop, it keeps getting echoed by Republican politicians.

And the believers of #2 are DEMANDING that the government resume control. The president is echoing that demand. They are demanding that force be used, including bloodshed, if that is needed, to fight against this #2 scenario - a scenario which isn't actually happening. That includes the president, who has threatened to send in the military if the governor or mayor doesn't do it quickly enough.
People (many of them, including our President) want to use military force against our own citizens, based on fiction. That's worrisome.

Exactly. Hardly a “mea, just politics as usual” issue. There is very clear danger to people’s lives as a result of these lies, not to mention the intentional smears of the reputations of those involved. Disgusting, coordinated, cynical, vicious attacks on others and on the fundaments of truth should not be viewed with yawns.

 

[Thermal]

Exactly. Hardly a “mea, just politics as usual” issue. There is very clear danger to people’s lives as a result of these lies, not to mention the intentional smears of the reputations of those involved. Disgusting, coordinated, cynical, vicious attacks on others and on the fundaments of truth should not be viewed with yawns.

Are you going to try to reason with people who wish to turn the US Military against its own hippy-type citizens based on internet rumors?

The Fox news crowd doesn't respond to facts. Like a conspiracy theorist, they will just change the subject to keep rolling out the confirmation bias.

Eta: ninja'ed almost verbatim by crescent

 

[Manger Douse]

Fox News falling for a Monty Python sketch:

 

[Mader Levap]

People (many of them, including our President) want to use military force against our own citizens, based on fiction. That's worrisome.

I am quite sure sir-drinks-a-lot and other rethugulicans are fine with that.

 

[Shadowdweller]

Clearly. The horror!

ETA: “The horror... with food trucks.”

That honestly saddens me. Why? Because, while I'm not intimately familiar with that part of Seattle that looks very much like an area that will one day be open to motor vehicle traffic. What is likely to become of that beautiful street mural in the face of sustained traffic?

 

[sir drinks-a-lot]

Frankly I haven’t noticed “the left leaning media” warping reality much at all this election season. If anything I’ve seen them try to be as unbiased as possible while under personal and systematic attack and threat.

Is this a Poe?

But this is another, “Yeah? Well, what about them?” effort and I refuse to take the bait. My point about the evil lies and intentional fictions spun by the Republicans and right wing media stand unrefuted by your post.

"What about them?" is a valid criticism. I'm certain that if I were to start a thread chronicling the lies of the Obama administration, the first thing you and many other would say is "he's nothing compared to Trump". You know this is the case.

I'm not claiming there aren't intentional lies and spin on the right. I'm just surprised at how blind you are to the fact that it's also happening on the left. Your comment about "being as unbiased as possible while under personal and systematic attack and threat" borders on comedy.

 

[Thermal]

That honestly saddens me. Why? Because, while I'm not intimately familiar with that part of Seattle that looks very much like an area that will one day be open to motor vehicle traffic. What is likely to become of that beautiful street mural in the face of sustained traffic?

Maybe the artists were making a long-game performance piece about society trampling on and forgetting its ideals? Or perhaps it will be predictably destroyed because the knucklehead painters don't have a sense of situational transience? Yeah, that second one.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Looks like some people don't agree with you and have loftier goals than trying to rectify "the race thing".

Solidarity between working people of all races to solve the problem of police brutality is a pretty common element of most of these protests.

These things are largely being lead and organized by leftists. Police abolishment/defunding are leftist causes. Calls for class consciousness and solidarity are par for the course and not signs of it being co-opted.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Is there anyone in Seattle that finds this anarchist hellscape protest/street festival more objectionable than cops blanketing the area with tear gas?

Even from the perspective of the uninterested bystander, the absence of police is likely welcomed. Tear gas irritates the protester and bystander alike, and I'm sure it's been wafting into these homes given how heavily the cops had been deploying gas.

 

[Giordano]

Is this a Poe?



"What about them?" is a valid criticism. I'm certain that if I were to start a thread chronicling the lies of the Obama administration, the first thing you and many other would say is "he's nothing compared to Trump". You know this is the case.

I'm not claiming there aren't intentional lies and spin on the right. I'm just surprised at how blind you are to the fact that it's also happening on the left. Your comment about "being as unbiased as possible while under personal and systematic attack and threat" borders on comedy.

We’ve been through this very point before. A “what about them” rebuttal can, if proven, only prove hypocrisy on the part of the opponent. It cannot rebut the accuracy of the original accusation of an evil deed or immoral action. It cannot justify a wrong. If the black hats murder people, an accusation that the red hats do too doesn’t make murder any more acceptable.

So I refuse to be led off on your distraction. In part because it is absurd and I don’t believe that even you see the “liberal” newspapers as comparable to the propaganda machine and private Ministry of Truth represented by Fox et al. But more so because it is an attempt to yell “squirrel.” If you wish to assume that I am a hypocrite and I choose to ignore the deep “bias” of the non-Fox media - fine. But my post about the evil of Fox et al. still stands, unrefuted, independent of my “hypocrisy.”

 

[Stout]

OK people it's time to put down those phones, log off that computer, go outside and give $10 to the first black person you see.

If you find this difficult, you have to think really critically about in the future are you actually going to give up power, land and capital because if you have a hard time giving up 10 dollars. You gotta think about, are you really down with this struggle ? Are you really down with the movement ? Because if that is a challenge for you then I'm unsure if you're posting on the right thread.

White people...I see you...I see every single one of you.

You find that African American person and you give them $10, that;s my challenge to you.

DO IT

 

[shemp]

I would give a random black person $10,000 before I would give a racist like you the time of day.

 

[Stout]

Hey shemp. What time is it ?

 

[Giordano]

OK people it's time to put down those phones, log off that computer, go outside and give $10 to the first black person you see.

If you find this difficult, you have to think really critically about in the future are you actually going to give up power, land and capital because if you have a hard time giving up 10 dollars. You gotta think about, are you really down with this struggle ? Are you really down with the movement ? Because if that is a challenge for you then I'm unsure if you're posting on the right thread.

White people...I see you...I see every single one of you.

You find that African American person and you give them $10, that;s my challenge to you.

DO IT

Okay, did it. They looked puzzled. Now what?

 

[Stout]

Okay, did it. They looked puzzled. Now what?

You did..excellent. Now you've shown your commitment to give up power, land and capital and all you need do is wait the people at CHAZ to ask you for it.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

You did..excellent. Now you've shown your commitment to give up power, land and capital and all you need do is wait the people at CHAZ to ask you for it.

OMG!