PartSkeptic’s Thread for Predictions and Other Matters of Interest

[Cosmic Yak]

Testing...
Would you be convinced that I am EHS if my tests showed that I can tell from the pain that I am being radiated? Or would you say I am lying or did not do the tests properly?

You mean, like you're doing here?

Recommended by which organization? (Answer - ICNIRP)

And which industry funds them? (Answer - The Telcos.)

And based on what? (Answer- Heating only and no duration.)

And do all countries have the same level? (Answer - NO.)

And why are they NOT wrong about the interference of the VGCC in cells? (Answer - They ARE wrong. Check their latest literature. They are starting to get very cagey in making admissions that the science may yet show harm - and that they are proceeding on the basis of NO provable harm AT THE MOMENT. To heck with caution and testing.)

Why are so many scientists concerned about harm and rolling out so quickly on such a massive scale? (Answer - because far too many credible tests indicate cellular harm in so many ways.)

Where is your skepticism? (Answer - You are selective. You just blindly follow the industry disinformation websites that make out that questioning cell phone radiation is a conspiracy theory.)

There's a word for this. I think it's called projection.

 

[turingtest]

Thanks for the vote of confidence and the praise, but I really only dropped in. I have no desire to wade through 20 pages of PartSkeptic's pseudoscience and address it in depth. Others who are equally if not more capable appear to have done that already.

Pixel42 in particular has, I think, been admirable in her patient and dispassionate refusal to go down the sidetracks offered up in PS's endless "here I am, brain the size of a planet" posts and keep his feet to the fire on the relevant points.

 

[JayUtah]

Pixel42 in particular has, I think, been admirable in her patient and dispassionate refusal to go down the sidetracks offered up in PS's endless "here I am, brain the size of a planet" posts and keep his feet to the fire on the relevant points.

Agreed, which is why it's far more valuable for that to continue than for me to keep trying to explain to PartSkeptic the real reason why his lawsuit is doomed to fail.

 

[abaddon]

All good! I was just a little unsure on your auto-adjusting output voltage statement, but it's been cleared up.

Sorry for the derail.

No problem. If I had time, I might out of sheer boredom work out how they do what they do, but why? They just do it and I am somewhat of a utilitarian.

If it works, then it works.

I could delve into the nether regions of exactly why it works, but that would seem to be a waste of time to me. Someone else already worked it out. Could I repeat that work? Sure, but why would I or anyone else remotely want to? To what end and purpose?

Now we could quibble the matter all day long and that is part of PS's game. He wants that quibbling. It allows him to claim that experts disagree. Classic divide and conquer tactic.

But the fact remains that filing down a plug to fit in the hole is utterly bonkers.

 

[abaddon]

Thanks for the vote of confidence and the praise, but I really only dropped in. I have no desire to wade through 20 pages of PartSkeptic's pseudoscience and address it in depth. Others who are equally if not more capable appear to have done that already.

No. You don't. It is such abject nonsense that it would annoy you a lot. I know it annoys me. But I have a shorter fuse.

Personally, I have two honking great masts in sight of my home. 200m or so. Somehow neither I or any of my neighbours suffer any ill effects. I am fully aware that this is an anecdote and cannot constitute evidence as such. But it is no different than PS anecdotes, is it?

 

[abaddon]

Pixel42 in particular has, I think, been admirable in her patient and dispassionate refusal to go down the sidetracks offered up in PS's endless "here I am, brain the size of a planet" posts and keep his feet to the fire on the relevant points.

Pixel42 has a lot more patience than I with this bag of nonsense.

 

[Roger Ramjets]

Confirmation bias...

She got basal cell carcinoma on her face and then on her chest a little later. Another house next to the tower had the husband see a return of his prostate cancer, and his wife have various illnesses. They moved into their office and are going to sell their house of use it as a business. All of this in 6 months of power on.

Oh dear.

People get various illnesses all the time. If someone had prostrate cancer, the likely reason for it 'returning' is obvious - and it's not cellphone signals. You are now beyond confirmation bias and into la la land.

 

[EHocking]

No problem. If I had time, I might out of sheer boredom work out how they do what they do, but why? They just do it and I am somewhat of a utilitarian.

If it works, then it works.

I could delve into the nether regions of exactly why it works, but that would seem to be a waste of time to me. Someone else already worked it out. Could I repeat that work? Sure, but why would I or anyone else remotely want to? To what end and purpose?

Now we could quibble the matter all day long and that is part of PS's game. He wants that quibbling. It allows him to claim that experts disagree. Classic divide and conquer tactic.

But the fact remains that filing down a plug to fit in the hole is utterly bonkers.

dont they just incorporate step up and down transformers for voltage regulation?

As a retail customer, I’ve probably bought 1/2 a dozen of these things while travelling for work and only once, way back in the mid-80s was I require to select an input voltage, e.g., using a non-US laptop in the US.

Currently I also have the opposite in my home office.
A US supplied laptop and power source that I plugged straight into the 240v power point at home (customer supplied it and locked it down for VPN/remote access security on their network).

Oh, and to get those plugs to fit into your laptop?

Read the power unit specs to see if it fits your model of laptop . . . it really is that simple.
Even non-genius engineers such as myself can work this out.

 

[EvilBiker]

But the fact remains that filing down a plug to fit in the hole is utterly bonkers.

True, but what actually, what got *me* cringing was the "pressing the vernier hard" bit...

 

[EvilBiker]

dont they just incorporate step up and down transformers for voltage regulation?

Nah, transformers are sooo last century It's all digital now. I know how these things work (having designed quite a few of them) - basically rectified AC is switched using a high frequency square wave, the on/off ratio determines the output voltage.

I wonder if PS realises that the power supply he bought also generates a lot of EMI/RFI due to the switching diodes. I wonder if he also realises that if he bought a cheap one it's probably radiating under load like a poorly maintained nuclear reactor. He should check it immediately with his E-meter.

 

[PartSkeptic]

You give three reviews: 2005, 2011 and 2013. And the common co-author. James Rubin from Kings College. Check out the types of papers he co-authors. If there was a man who wants funding I would guess it would be him.

The other problem I have is that I cannot critique his articles because they all require purchase of the article. Money, money, money.

You have to do better. I am disappointed. I guess I have to get my own list of papers that are much more recent and not biased and cherry picked.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15784787/

Psychosom Med
. Mar-Apr 2005;67(2):224-32.
doi: 10.1097/01.psy.0000155664.13300.64.
Electromagnetic Hypersensitivity: A Systematic Review of Provocation Studies
G James Rubin 1 , Jayati Das Munshi, Simon Wessely

Another, later, metastudy.https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21769898/ Bioelectromagnetics

. 2011 Dec;32(8):593-609.
doi: 10.1002/bem.20690. Epub 2011 Jul 18.
Do People With Idiopathic Environmental Intolerance Attributed to Electromagnetic Fields Display Physiological Effects When Exposed to Electromagnetic Fields? A Systematic Review of Provocation Studies
G James Rubin 1 , Lena Hillert, Rosa Nieto-Hernandez, Eric van Rongen, Gunnhild Oftedal

This is an interesting one:https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23438710/

J Psychosom Res
. 2013 Mar;74(3):206-12.
doi: 10.1016/j.jpsychores.2012.12.002. Epub 2012 Dec 23.
Are Media Warnings About the Adverse Health Effects of Modern Life Self-Fulfilling? An Experimental Study on Idiopathic Environmental Intolerance Attributed to Electromagnetic Fields (IEI-EMF)
Michael Witthöft 1 , G James Rubin

 

[PartSkeptic]

Nah, transformers are sooo last century It's all digital now. I know how these things work (having designed quite a few of them) - basically rectified AC is switched using a high frequency square wave, the on/off ratio determines the output voltage.

I wonder if PS realises that the power supply he bought also generates a lot of EMI/RFI due to the switching diodes. I wonder if he also realises that if he bought a cheap one it's probably radiating under load like a poorly maintained nuclear reactor. He should check it immediately with his E-meter.

I used to design switching power supplies for various projects. I also designed computer UPS units. And yes, I had to be aware of emfs. I also designed and manufactured a unit that would phone a cell phone and give alarms. We used a B2B cell unit that was enclosed in a metal for shielding.

You guys are trying to teach your grandmother to such eggs.

 

[PartSkeptic]

True, but what actually, what got *me* cringing was the "pressing the vernier hard" bit...

Because I realized I could be on one of the sprung metal clips that were part of the socket. That is why I repositioned and repeated the measurements. Pressing hard is relative. Just hard enough to open a small clip.

When I was director of engineering in New York I used to design specialized flame application for heat treating. I had to do a lot of mechanical engineering such as water-cooled rollers, with pneumatics to position the heavy burners. I had to use specialized steels and ceramics. And designed an analyzer using the resistance of a flame to measure the plasma.

Please. I can and did outperform many who feel that were "experts".

 

[PartSkeptic]

dont they just incorporate step up and down transformers for voltage regulation?

As a retail customer, I’ve probably bought 1/2 a dozen of these things while travelling for work and only once, way back in the mid-80s was I require to select an input voltage, e.g., using a non-US laptop in the US.

Currently I also have the opposite in my home office.
A US supplied laptop and power source that I plugged straight into the 240v power point at home (customer supplied it and locked it down for VPN/remote access security on their network).

Oh, and to get those plugs to fit into your laptop?

Read the power unit specs to see if it fits your model of laptop . . . it really is that simple.
Even non-genius engineers such as myself can work this out.

Many supplies use a microchip to switch the raw DC power to an inductor-capacitor pair. This way they can get both a boost and buck (step-up and step-down) for very little weight.

The raw DC is often say 12volts of 6 volts from 110 or 240 ac. This is obtained by a rectifier bridge feeding a switching chip which feeds a small toroid. The toroid gives isolation and also current boosting.

One design I saw used a single chip to switch the AC direct to the desired DC value. No isolation and only for small currents.

You are correct to read the specs of both supply and laptop. Apart from different voltages, a few have the center pin as negative instead of positive. And the wattage varies from say 60w to 120w.

 

[PartSkeptic]

Oh dear.

People get various illnesses all the time. If someone had prostrate cancer, the likely reason for it 'returning' is obvious - and it's not cellphone signals. You are now beyond confirmation bias and into la la land.

I am quite aware of remission. The timing of the return was suspicious. Not definitive but not a good sign.

Do you think that a person in cancer remission should avoid having multiple xrays? Just in case some of the pre-cancerous cells the might be dormant are "triggered"?

My wife has a fair skin and has a disposition to melanoma. But having one occurrence on her face followed by one on her chest a few months later is also suspicious. Now she is away from the tower her skin is doing fine.

How do you think epidemiological studies are done? They takes surveys of this sort of thing and compare basal cell carcinomas around tower with other areas. There is a Brazilian study on this. Is that good enough for you?

https://www.avaate.org/IMG/pdf/ESTUDIO_BRASIL_BrazilCellTowerStudy.pdf

Google "brazilian cell tower cancer study". You will find the industry throwing doubt on the study as "alarmist". There are many who are highly paid to do so.

 

[PartSkeptic]

So if you understand the difference between ionizing and non-ionizing radiation, why are you trying to draw a parallel between cell phone radio-frequency emissions and ionizing radiation such as found in nuclear fission or diagnostic x-rays? Do you understand that those are fundamentally different kinds of effects? You once claimed to be an engineer so skilled as to be able to solve problems that no other engineers could. But now you're making elementary mistakes in basic principles of physics. This does not bode well for the premise that you are competent to understand the science that relates to your claims.

The cell industry is desperately (but successfully) using the difference to state that there is no harm.

They are wrong. Just as you are, in making a simple yet incorrect assumption that only ionizing radiation can cause DNA damage. In 1994 Henry Lai showed that non-ionizing radiation also could. He was working for Motorola. See the story of how they hounded him.

They got another scientist to repeat his experiment to disprove it. They got another proof of harm and another scientist saying so. They no longer try to disprove studies by repeating them. They nit-pick and throw doubt.

They use pseudo-science and suck in people like you who think that the some basic principles apply and others do not. A major cause of harm is disruption to cellular VGCC causing excess ROS which damages DNA.

And how much to you know about that area of science? A basic principle of cellular microbiology. These cellular ion channels are so crucial to our well being that they are studied by drug companies to find new drugs to regulate them.

 

[Pixel42]

You give three reviews: 2005, 2011 and 2013. And the common co-author. James Rubin from Kings College. Check out the types of papers he co-authors. If there was a man who wants funding I would guess it would be him.

The other problem I have is that I cannot critique his articles because they all require purchase of the article. Money, money, money.

You have to do better. I am disappointed. I guess I have to get my own list of papers that are much more recent and not biased and cherry picked.

I, however, am not disappointed, because this is exactly the kind of utterly disgraceful response I expected from you. Faced with the evidence that there have been dozens of experiments of exactly the kind you declared 'the Telcos' refuse to do, you desperately search for a common name in the teams who collected them together into metastudies and attempt to slander him.

But OK, PartSkeptic, go ahead and invent the most spurious of grounds to reject the work of all those scientists who carefully investigated claims like yours (though we all know it's really because they got results you don't like), and do your own experiment to prove them all wrong, as you agreed to do exactly a month ago. We're waiting.

 

[Cosmic Yak]

Recommended by which organization? (Answer - ICNIRP)

And which industry funds them? (Answer - The Telcos.)

See pp. 426-7 of your court documents.
It was established that these accusations are false. ICNIRP is an independent, non-profit organisation that is not funded by the telecom industry.

 

[JayUtah]

They use pseudo-science and suck in people like you...

Yet another appeal to conspiracy.

And how much to you know about that area of science?

More insinuation to know more than everyone else about whatever subject we're talking about. The difference between ionizing and non-ionizing radiation is real. You're trying to muddy up that distinction by saying, "Well, both can cause harm." Their effects are still night-and-day different, yet you're trying to treat them as equivalent.

 

[EHocking]

I used to design switching power supplies for various projects. I also designed computer UPS units. And yes, I had to be aware of emfs. I also designed and manufactured a unit that would phone a cell phone and give alarms. We used a B2B cell unit that was enclosed in a metal for shielding.

You guys are trying to teach your grandmother to such eggs.

And yet me, as an non-electronics genius, have bought universal power supplies for laptops, speakers, amplifiers and phones that have never needed the connecting pin ground down to fit the device I’m powering.