Cont: The Trump Presidency: Part 22

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Dragon said:
Are we, at last, at the tipping point where the Republicans who were holding their noses are going to turn on Trump?
It is remarkable that it was the killing of one black man by police officers that triggered this situation.
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No, not yet.

My Trump-supporting buddy sees nothing wrong with clearing protesters from Lafayette park for a photo op. He confuses peaceful protesters with looters and further buys that there's a dark conspiracy using this moment to sow unrest. (I guess I do too, but the dark conspiracy is in the White House.)
 
uke2se said:
Don't put this on black voters. George Floyd would be just as dead under Hillary Clinton. Trump didn't kill him. He simply made everything that followed worse.
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This may have been true, but there is evidence for the emboldening of the Minneapolis police by the election of trump based on comments they made.
 
Dragon said:
Are we, at last, at the tipping point where the Republicans who were holding their noses are going to turn on Trump?
It is remarkable that it was the killing of one black man by police officers that triggered this situation.
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That will only happen if they become confident that he will lose re-election. At that point, there will be a whole lot of born again Never Trumpers.

However, I do think that some people who were on the fence already have hardened their hearts against him, and some who were silently against him might grow publicly against him, but note that the people speaking out against him are mostly retired from political careers. I'll bet you won't see any condemnation of Trump from any Republican politician whose still faces a primary election.

I do think his reaction, not the killing itself, has hurt him politically., but will it be enough? His base will lap it up, but his base isn't big enough for him to win re-election.
 
Meadmaker said:
That will only happen if they become confident that he will lose re-election. At that point, there will be a whole lot of born again Never Trumpers.

However, I do think that some people who were on the fence already have hardened their hearts against him, and some who were silently against him might grow publicly against him, but note that the people speaking out against him are mostly retired from political careers. I'll bet you won't see any condemnation of Trump from any Republican politician whose still faces a primary election.

I do think his reaction, not the killing itself, has hurt him politically., but will it be enough? His base will lap it up, but his base isn't big enough for him to win re-election.
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Assuming there is an election. My nighttime whisky thoughts are telling me stoking these protests is a great way to get everyone nice and infected with Covid just in time for it to blow up into a nation-shattering crisis in the fall, and then of course the election will need to be postponed until it's safe for people to vote. Actually planning that far ahead has not been a strength of the Trump administration so far, but I wouldn't put it past them to try pulling a stunt like that if the opportunity arises.
 
I get the feeling that some Republican officials sense that trump may be in trouble. Senator Mitch McConnell is also up for reelection and recently he's been putting some space between himself and trump. Below is a quote, from the conservative New York Post newspaper, about McConnell's reaction to the killing of George Floyd.
“Americans from coast to coast have been grieved and horrified by the killings of African American citizens: Ahmaud Arbery in Georgia, Breonna Taylor in my hometown of Louisville, Kentucky, and George Floyd in Minneapolis,” the top Senate Republican began...In no world whatsoever should arresting a man for an alleged minor infraction involve a police officer putting his knee on the man’s neck for nine minutes while he cries out ‘I can’t breathe’ and then goes silent,” he remarked.

McConnell went on to argue that “these disturbing events do not look like three isolated incidents.” Instead, he said, “they look more like the latest chapters in our national struggle to make equal justice and equal protection of the law into facts of life for all Americans, rather than contingencies that sometimes depend on the color of one’s skin.” Link
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McConnell also took a much more reasoned view of some of the violence that has broken out following protests.
“I’ve always been a supporter of demonstrations, but they need to be peaceful, and this senseless violence in reaction to this is not helpful to anyone and I hope it will stop,” he said. Asked again about the looting, he reiterated that such behaviors needed to stop, but repeatedly conceded that “you can certainly understand the outrage.”
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In recent days McConnell has also broken ranks with trump over wearing face masks. This is from Forbes magazine:
“There’s no stigma attached to wearing a mask. There’s no stigma attached to staying six feet apart,” McConnell said at an event in Kentucky, according to Politico. McConnell aimed his statements at younger Americans, telling them they have “an obligation to others” to avoid being carriers of the disease. The comments come amid a fierce debate, largely split along partisan lines, about whether people should regularly wear masks in public.

Trump has been the most prominent opponent of mask wearing, mocking a reporter for wearing one and going maskless during appearances at a Honeywell plant in Arizona and a Ford plant in Michigan, both of which had policies requiring masks. Link
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Beelzebuddy said:
Assuming there is an election. My nighttime whisky thoughts are telling me stoking these protests is a great way to get everyone nice and infected with Covid just in time for it to blow up into a nation-shattering crisis in the fall, and then of course the election will need to be postponed until it's safe for people to vote. Actually planning that far ahead has not been a strength of the Trump administration so far, but I wouldn't put it past them to try pulling a stunt like that if the opportunity arises.
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In an odd way, recent events have heartened me on that front. I always thought the idea that there would be no election at all was a bit paranoid, but I confess to some nagging doubts that had crept in. I think with this situation, seeing people like George W. Bush with subtle criticism, and Mad Dog Mattis with overt criticism, and National Review articles that are intensely critical in a way they haven't been since the 2016 Republican primaries, has shown that there are lines that cannot be crossed.
 
I wonder if there will be any Tweets about a "talentless actor and overrated wrestler who nobody had good things to say about when I was helping Vince McMahon create one of his most successful pay-per-view events ever."

[URL="https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2894707-the-rock-posts-video-to-donald-trump-where-is-our-leader]Dwayne Johnson calls out Trump for his lack of leadership.[/URL]

The Rock posted an Instagram video Wednesday night in which he called out President Donald Trump for his lack of leadership after the killing of George Floyd.

"Where is our leader at this time, at this time when our country is down on its knees begging, pleading, hurt, angry, frustrated, in pain? Begging and pleading with its arms out, just wanting to be heard. ... We must say the words Black Lives Matter," The Rock said.

"There is military force that has been deployed on our own people. Looters? Yes. Criminals? Absolutely. But on protesters, who are begging and pleading?" The Rock said, shaking his head. "On protesters who are in pain? You know, you would be surprised how people in pain would respond when you say to them, 'I care about you.' When you say to them, 'I'm listening to you.'"

The Rock called on Trump to take "full accountability" to take on systemic racism in the United States to create change and "normalize equality."
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“I’ve always been a supporter of demonstrations, but they need to be peaceful, and this senseless violence in reaction to this is not helpful to anyone and I hope it will stop,” he said. Asked again about the looting, he reiterated that such behaviors needed to stop, but repeatedly conceded that “you can certainly understand the outrage.” - Mitch McConnell
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trump however has chosen to ignore the deeper issues and instead only focus on the looting and violence that has broken out. He politicizes everything and only proceeds in a way that will benefit him politically. No doubt trump's core constituency -- and make no mistake, the evidence is it includes a lot of 'executive class' Republican voters -- is loving it. For me, even if you voted for trump in 2016, this is clear evidence the man is not competent to serve as president of the United States.
 
Meadmaker said:
In an odd way, recent events have heartened me on that front. I always thought the idea that there would be no election at all was a bit paranoid, but I confess to some nagging doubts that had crept in. I think with this situation, seeing people like George W. Bush with subtle criticism, and Mad Dog Mattis with overt criticism, and National Review articles that are intensely critical in a way they haven't been since the 2016 Republican primaries, has shown that there are lines that cannot be crossed.
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The thing is, there isn't a single national election. There are 50 some national elections.
 
slyjoe said:
The thing is, there isn't a single national election. There are 50 some national elections.
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Yeah and only... like a few of them of them matter.

No one's gonna waste their time rigging the election in California or Texas because they are solidly in the bag already, nor in Wyoming or the Dakotas because honestly who the hell cares.

But you cheat to give yourself a 1-5% edge in Ohio, Florida, Iowa, Virginia, and Wisconsin and yes you can steal an election.

Yes the fact that you can't (within any sane scenario worth doing) rig the American electorate across all 50 states is technically true, but meaningless but all 50 states don't elect the President, about a few do.
 
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JoeMorgue said:
Yeah and only... like a few of them of them matter.

No one's gonna waste their time rigging the election in California or Texas because they are solidly in the bag already, nor in Wyoming or the Dakotas because honestly who the hell cares.

But you cheat to give yourself a 1-5% edge in Ohio, Florida, Iowa, Virginia, and Wisconsin and yes you can steal an election.

Yes the fact that you can't (within any sane scenario worth doing) rig the American electorate across all 50 states is technically true, but meaningless but all 50 states don't elect the President, about a few do.
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Still same problem. Within a state, the ballots/election is not statewide. I think this came up when discussing fake ballots being mailed in. Different precincts may have different ballots.
 
slyjoe said:
Still same problem. Within a state, the ballots/election is not statewide. I think this came up when discussing fake ballots being mailed in. Different precincts may have different ballots.
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Every time election security comes up as a topic, Americans seem to say that having so many different systems protects the election from attack, but every time I hear a new detail about how Americans actually carry out their elections, I'm convinced even further that the complexity of your system does nothing but make it more vulnerable.

I have never once, in my life, ever worried about a Canadian election being undermined by stupid **** like what happens in the US. But I worry about the US more and more every day, it seems.
 
slyjoe said:
Still same problem. Within a state, the ballots/election is not statewide. I think this came up when discussing fake ballots being mailed in. Different precincts may have different ballots.
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And the counter is the same.

You don't have to swing Florida, you have to swing a couple of counties in Florida. And in those counties you don't have to swing the entire county, just a few precents.

The margins are insane here because of Gerrymandering and the EC.

And all of this, all of it, is ignoring the obvious weakspot that is the 538 totally unrestrained Electors.
 
Mader Levap said:
It is almost like United States of America is pseudo-democracy or something.
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"But it's a Republic!" is the standard answer from the people who have stacked the system so 30%, at best, of the country makes the electoral decisions.
 
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