Biden for President?

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Just to put a cap on this (because I think I’ve made my point):

In the end, I can’t hold this allegation against Biden. Why? Because there’s no evidence, not because Reade is a bad person.

That's you. But there are many people who believe her, or claim to believe her, despite there being no evidence (and many questionable aspects about her story).

I think this onslaught of personal attacks on Reade has almost completely undermined #metoo and the lessons society was supposed to be learning.

The message remains clear to me, at least: it’s not about who the woman is, what she does, or what kind of person she is. It’s not even about the man and what kind of pattern he has or if he has a reputation for this kind of thing. It’s all about acknowledging that this kind of thing happens all the time, by and to people you wouldn’t expect. We should listen to women and their experiences, even if we aren’t going to condemn every accused man because there simply isn’t enough evidence to do so.

If a woman makes an intentionally false claim, isn't she the one who is harming the MeToo movement? And what do you consider to be "personal attacks"? For example, the bad check issue could be evidence of an alternative reason that she left Biden's office.
 
That's you. But there are many people who believe her, or claim to believe her, despite there being no evidence (and many questionable aspects about her story).



If a woman makes an intentionally false claim, isn't she the one who is harming the MeToo movement? And what do you consider to be "personal attacks"? For example, the bad check issue could be evidence of an alternative reason that she left Biden's office.

Without getting into whether or not xjx388 is a strong advocate for the MeToo movement with only their best interests at heart, I'd like to point out that the bad check issue is now being reported as having happened in 1992, before Reade even worked for Biden. Her coworkers claim that she was fired for poor work performance, per the PBS piece.
 
Goodness Gracious no. Never.

Why would I? Your admission was just dandy
Awesome!

So.

Biden once got a speeding ticket while driving. Whereas Trump regularly drunkenly careens his 18-wheeler through crowded sidewalks, creating immeasurable death and destruction (including the obligatory upsetting of fruit carts), all while cheered on by 40% of those in his path of selfish disregard.

But hey, at least Trump isn't a speeder.
 
This is where we're heading:
WASHINGTON — President Trump’s eldest son on Saturday posted a social media message suggesting Joseph R. Biden Jr. was a pedophile, an incendiary and baseless charge that illustrates the tactics the president is turning to as he attempts to erase Mr. Biden’s early advantage in key state polls.

Donald Trump Jr., who is one of his father’s most prominent campaign surrogates, put on Instagram a picture of Mr. Biden saying: “See you later, alligator” alongside an image of an alligator saying: “In a while, pedophile.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/16/us/donald-trump-jr-biden-smear.html

And we can be sure it will only get worse.
 
You are claiming that as an employer you do not contact the previous employers of your prospective employee?
I am not claiming that. I am claiming that I don't contact them to get gossip about them. I contact them to confirm employment; nothing more.
Your organization does no background check whatsoever on a prospective employee?
Nothing extensive. The application asks if they have criminal convictions; we run a criminal background check. If it matches, I usually ask about the circumstances of the conviction. Not every conviction is grounds for me to write a candidate off.

(We do have a particularly sensitive couple of positions, which we are required to do a more extensive background check.)
You just take what they write on their resume/application (whatever your process is) as gospel?
No. I interview them and ask them specific questions about jobs they've done. I posit on-the-job scenarios and see how they respond. It's pretty easy to see who actually has the experience and knowledge to do the job.
Ok, sure, I'm not going to accuse you of lying to try to make a point. But that's not common.
You are right. I am not a common employer. I don't care about petty crimes that the candidate is forthcoming about. I don't judge them based on mistakes in the past. I only care about two things: Can they do the job? Do they have a good work history -no unexplained gaps in employment, no job-hopping, etc.

And we've already been over why one has to examine credibility if there is no evidence. Over and over, with examples from law, society, and personal lives. But you claim to also make no attempt to determine how credible anyone is when they tell you they didn't break your weed-eater it was already broken, or when they need to borrow money, etc.

If you never asses credibility as an employer, when lending your goods or money, or when attempting to determine something when you have no direct evidence either way, then I doubt anyone will be able to convince you that credibility matters.
I never said that credibility doesn't matter. I said it isn't a good tool in assessing sexual harassment claims, lending money to relatives, etc. And yeah, it can seem like I'm a trusting sort. But I'm not really. I set our policies to avoid having my staff or me make credibility assessments . If a patient says that they didn't bring their wallet to pay their copay, our policy is that we will reschedule the visit until such time as they do bring their wallet. No need to assess credibilty. It's amazing how many wallets turn up in the car.

I'd venture that if you are telling the truth, you're being ripped off a lot and likely have people working for you who are not qualified to do their jobs. I believe you're in the medical field, so I certainly hope having unqualified people working for you hasn't caused a catastrophe yet.
Not at all. Sure, I've hired some duds and some people who proved to be unreliable. I had one employee steal from the till. But the systems are in place to catch such things; it would be hard to get away with. Most of the people I've hired are long term employees, only moving on when a spouse gets relocated or some other major life change. But most of them have been in my employ for as long as I've been an employer.

Most people are good people, even if they've made mistakes. That's my experience and the way I see things. It works. When they actually screw up, that's when I need to act.

Most women have experienced harassment. Even women who have made mistakes. I see no reason to discount their stories simply because they've done bad things in their life or made questionable decisions. Their "credibility" is a poor tool to use. We don't act on their stories all the time (or shouldn't, anyway) because there is no evidence or it's much too late to do anything. This is not an excuse to attack the woman.
 
This almost seems like a testable prediction. Since testable predictions are often interesting: Worse how? Are you predicting that Trump Jr. will go on to tweet even worse things about Biden?

I am predicting that the Trumpers will sling every kind of dirt they can imagine, however false, at Biden and the Democrats. We already have Trump demanding that Obama and Biden be prosecuted for "Obamagate." That's what's going to get worse.
 
I am predicting that the Trumpers will sling every kind of dirt they can imagine, however false, at Biden and the Democrats. We already have Trump demanding that Obama and Biden be prosecuted for "Obamagate." That's what's going to get worse.

Ah. "Every kind of dirt they can imagine" doesn't seem definable, let alone testable. Oh well.
 
There has been rumor of a Trump-Biden fail-son debate. This is exactly the level of discourse we desperately deserve right now.
 
Goodness Gracious no. Never.

Why would I? Your admission was just dandy

In what way? There is no 'admission'. You are confusing that with acknowledging a fact. If you think you proved some point by that, you are mistaken.

I have to say that I find it amusing that someone who ignores over 18,000 proven lies/misrepresentations by Trump would think he's scored some kind of 'gotcha' when I acknowledge two lies by Biden. Amusing yet very telling.
 
Originally Posted by Stacyhs
Depends on the man and what he gets out of it. Some men just harass women but never progress to physical assaults. Some men prefer a quick assault to a more complicated time consuming affair.
None of this is consistent with Biden.

Are you still unsure?

Unsure about what? I think I've made it very clear that I think Reade's allegations are unfounded and untrue.
 
I am not claiming that. I am claiming that I don't contact them to get gossip about them. I contact them to confirm employment; nothing more. Nothing extensive. The application asks if they have criminal convictions; we run a criminal background check. If it matches, I usually ask about the circumstances of the conviction. Not every conviction is grounds for me to write a candidate off.

Why do you attack the character of your prospective employees like that? Who cares if they have a criminal background? It's not at all relevant, I've been told.


I never said that credibility doesn't matter. I said it isn't a good tool in assessing sexual harassment claims, lending money to relatives, etc.

Why is credibility not important when assessing whether someone is telling you the truth? You guys keep sidestepping my questions about Wohl and Burkman, so I'm just going to repeat it. Do you take into account Wohl and Burkman's history of telling false accounts when you are deciding whether or not to believe their latest account?


Most women have experienced harassment. Even women who have made mistakes. I see no reason to discount their stories simply because they've done bad things in their life or made questionable decisions. Their "credibility" is a poor tool to use. We don't act on their stories all the time (or shouldn't, anyway) because there is no evidence or it's much too late to do anything. This is not an excuse to attack the woman.

We aren't discounting Reade's claims simply because she's done random "bad things" or made "questionable decisions". We're discounting Reade's claims because of her history of falsely making these types of claims, her history of changing her story, and now the PBS research finding that there aren't any places like Reade described the encounter taking place in between Biden's old office and the gym, as well as coworkers disputing much of her stories.
 
But you reached that conclusion only after you determined that Reade was an untrustworthy person in general.

That's uncharitable prestige. I'm sure there are plenty of Biden supporters that would still smear Reade if it were unambiguously clear her allegations were true.
 
Originally Posted by Stacyhs
Exactly. I find it shocking that anyone would try and compare Reade's allegations to 'casual sex'. Casual sex is consensual, assault is not.

Did you highlight this part for A reason?

there is no evidence that Biden behaved that way, and plenty that he didn't.

Yes. To emphasis that there is no evidence that Biden ever tried to have casual sex with any staffers but there is evidence he didn't as no one has ever come forward to suggest it and his reputation on the Hill that he was always respectful to women. I don't understand the confusion over this.
 
Given how the Trumps have been hard core projecting, this makes one wonder if they aren't expecting something bad to drop...

You don't wonder if they're idiots and this is their idea of priming the pump for something good to drop?

You don't wonder if they do this all the time anyway, without a single strategic thought in their heads?
 
Originally Posted by Stacyhs
Unsure about what? I think I've made it very clear that I think Reade's allegations are unfounded and untrue.
But you reached that conclusion only after you determined that Reade was an untrustworthy person in general.

My reasons for not believing Reade have been repeatedly posted. You do not agree with them. We all get that. But your tactic of just repeating the same challenge to them over and over and getting the same responses is beyond tedious and boring. There's a word to describe this tactic but the forum rules prohibit me from using it.
 
That's uncharitable prestige. I'm sure there are plenty of Biden supporters that would still smear Reade if it were unambiguously clear her allegations were true.

Just as there are plenty of Sanders and Trump supporters who will continue to smear Biden even if it were unambiguously clear her allegations were false.

Ever hear of the phrase "it's the pot calling the kettle black"?
 
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