Jogging in Georgia while black.

[Andy_Ross]

More surveillance film has emerged of other trespassers on the construction site at different dates apparently.

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

This seems quite a reasonable reaction when two blokes try to prevent him from jogging. After all, they might be trying to harm him.

He wasn't just jogging. He went onto a property where he absolutely knew he wasn't supposed to be. The blokes were not trying to prevent him from jogging. They were chasing down a criminal suspect.

They were not right in that regard. But they obviously were not just preventing him from jogging.

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

More surveillance film has emerged of other trespassers on the construction site at different dates apparently.

Well, where's the link?

 

[Andy_Ross]

it was on a twitter feed. I watched the film and was about to copy the link to the original site but twitter did it's annoying thing of updating the feed without asking.I can't find the tweet with the link now!

I am sure it will appear elsewhere

 

[The Common Potato]

You're a liar. Never once.

Most recently, on Guyger: I called her an indisputable Murder2. No fault for Botham Jean at all, even any microscopic triviality. You had me confused with another poster there, but that's another dumbassery. On the Welfare Check thread, same. The cop murdered her. I don't even recall arguing any other black person killed by a white one.

You're a liar.



They were roadblocking ahead of him. I see means of escape to the left and right.
You seriously think the tactical move is to rush them? Virtually guaranteed death.

That does not mean it is even a little tiny bit his fault. It was not. Even if he was a burglar or whatever, it DOES NOT MATTER. Rednecks can't be roadside executioners in any scenario short of an active shooting or the like, full stop. Are there smaller words I can use for you?

Trying to run while still on the road around them not good enough?

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

His reaction on Feb 11 and Feb 23 indicate he was quite convinced he had been up to something he shouldn't have been, in there.

Or he was scared that people might think he was and would chase him down in a posse and shoot him dead.

Seems a reasonable state of mind, given events, doesn't it?

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

What the McMichaels say cannot be accepted as facts. It is pretty evident that they were waiting for the jogger with guns in hand in the only released video.

I think it's reasonable to assume that any lying or omissions going on would be attempts to exculpate themselves. This makes the statement about chasing Arbrey less likely to be a lie, because it inculpates the McMichaels.

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

See, I’m not interested in yes or no. At the end he clearly did. I’m more interested in the why, and I think it’s entirely open for me to theorise that Travis moved towards Arbery unseen by the video before Arbery confronted him. Don’t you think that a move by Travis towards him with a loaded gun would make Arbery think he had no other options?

And I’m less interested (ie, none at all) in your disagreement with dejudge.

Well, the thing is, this is how forums work. To argue a specific point I have to make specific arguments, and those arguments aren't arguments about general discussion. And some posters whom someone might argue against derail arguments with irrelevant arguments, so when other address the specific arguments they become relevant to the general discussion but not the specific argument and the thread goes on for years and years.

Moving on:

In the video I see Travis moving around to the front of the truck. Arbery gets to the front of the truck and deliberately turns left to attack Travis. A split second after we hear the gunshot we see Arbery charging into Travis at the left comer of the truck.

So Travis was moving toward Arbery. With a loaded shotgun. And Greg was yelling "Stop! Dammit, STOP!"

I think Arbery had a lot of options. Stop. Wait for the police. Ignore them and keep running forward. Run away.

All of those are more logical and safer options that charging a redneck with a shotgun. And another redneck the back of the truck. And another person following from behind.

I think the option Arbery chose was very extreme and the most dangerous. I think the chances that he would have lived would have been much, much higher if he had chosen any other option.

So I do find it a bit strange that he attacked or turned to attack to charged or ran at or tuned toward of whatever phrase you want to use.

So i was thinking that his actions was unusual...unless Travis had threatened him on 2/11. If that had happened, it would go a long way to explain both Arbery's actions but even also the McMichaels actions.

Just speculation. But it would make things make much more senible.

 

[Skeptic Tank]

Well, where's the link?

it was on a twitter feed. I watched the film and was about to copy the link to the original site but twitter did it's annoying thing of updating the feed without asking.I can't find the tweet with the link now!

I am sure it will appear elsewhere

Here's one example:

https://twitter.com/francismmaxwell/status/1261380521130520576?s=20

More stuff on Lee Merrit's timeline too.

Of course it's a bunch of people engaging in context denial. Ah yes, a couple of 12 year old white boys in the daytime walking around my property is exactly as suspicious and concerning as a 25 year old black guy with a big poofy haircut, shirtless.

Mind you, I wouldn't want kids messing around on my under-construction property either, but I'd be yelling "get outta there!" for one and calling cops for the other.

Because I actually am aware/accepting of, and not in a battle with, reality.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Well, the thing is, this is how forums work. To argue a specific point I have to make specific arguments, and those arguments aren't arguments about general discussion. And some posters whom someone might argue against derail arguments with irrelevant arguments, so when other address the specific arguments they become relevant to the general discussion but not the specific argument and the thread goes on for years and years.

Moving on:

In the video I see Travis moving around to the front of the truck. Arbery gets to the front of the truck and deliberately turns left to attack Travis. A split second after we hear the gunshot we see Arbery charging into Travis at the left comer of the truck.

So Travis was moving toward Arbery. With a loaded shotgun. And Greg was yelling "Stop! Dammit, STOP!"

I think Arbery had a lot of options. Stop. Wait for the police. Ignore them and keep running forward. Run away.

All of those are more logical and safer options that charging a redneck with a shotgun. And another redneck the back of the truck. And another person following from behind.

I think the option Arbery chose was very extreme and the most dangerous. I think the chances that he would have lived would have been much, much higher if he had chosen any other option.

So I do find it a bit strange that he attacked or turned to attack to charged or ran at or tuned toward of whatever phrase you want to use.

So i was thinking that his actions was unusual...unless Travis had threatened him on 2/11. If that had happened, it would go a long way to explain both Arbery's actions but even also the McMichaels actions.

Just speculation. But it would make things make much more senible.

This has been discussed to death, but since this thread is going on page 1 million, i suppose it's understandable that you may have missed it.

I have no interest in going through another tedious back and forth for the umpteenth time, but on some of these previous pages there's pretty damning video evidence that Travis was pointing the shotgun at Arbery prior to his veering around the truck, while Arbery was still a good many yards away running in the road It seems clear to me that Arbery's final desperate evasion and confrontation was a direct response to Travis' wanton aggravated assault.

If we're going to bust out the Ouija board to learn the motives of the dead, here's mine: Travis pointed the shotgun at Arbery while he was in the road, Arbery ran off the road and around the other side of the truck, and was confronted by his armed attacker at the front of the truck. Fearing for his life, Arbery makes his desperate unarmed attack, which fails. Arbery's fear and any actions he took, regardless of the poor chance of success, where the direct response to unlawful aggression by Travis, who was brandishing a firearm. It's unreasonable to expect Arbery to respond with perfect clear-headedness and calm demeanor to being unlawfully accosted by three armed thugs menacing him on public streets.

The DA's letter that the McMichaels were just open carrying apropos of nothing and were violently attacked by surprise by Arbery is pure fiction. The McMichaels took up arms for the sole purpose of confronting Arbery. The pursued him and failed to make him stop, and escalated the situation until Arbery was sufficiently in fear of his life that he made a desperate unarmed attempt to disarm the man menacing him. Then Travis murdered him in the struggle.

The McMichaels have been charged with aggravated assault in addition to murder. It seems like the GBI is also taking the stance that confronting Arbery in the road with such a display of firearms was not lawful open carry, but obviously an attempt to unlawfully intimidate Arbery.

 

[Skeptic Tank]

Take a little stroll down Lee Merrit's timeline: https://twitter.com/MeritLaw

Guy is a complete race hustler clown. The kind of things he's prepared to tweet are just amazing.

I'll give him this much. At least he's not rocking the embarrassing 71 IQ of Benjamin Crump. Looks like he's got maybe a 90 or so. Impressive.

 

[The Common Potato]

Tool

Worth noting: a tool, possibly a hammer, is visible on the road behind him on the video. Strongly indicating he had stolen from the house under construction and dropped it as he was escaping.

Is this another of those 3" rebar on 4' centres things?

The only video I have seen is the CBS one. I see no tool. Shadows, no tool.

The video only works for me in incognito mode.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Take a little stroll down Lee Merrit's timeline: https://twitter.com/MeritLaw

Guy is a complete race hustler clown. The kind of things he's prepared to tweet are just amazing.

I'll give him this much. At least he's not rocking the embarrassing 71 IQ of Benjamin Crump. Looks like he's got maybe a 90 or so. Impressive.

Does a black man with a law degree cause you discomfort?

 

[Skeptic Tank]

Is this another of those 3" rebar on 4' centres things?

The only video I have seen is the CBS one. I see no tool. Shadows, no tool.

The video only works for me in incognito mode.

We'll see. Maybe something about an object laying in the road "which may or may not have been connected to the event" will come out at trial. Maybe not.

Is your name a play on "Commentator" ?

 

[lionking]

The relevance is back to my post that started this whole line of discussion. I suggested the possibility that on 2/11 Travis may have threated Arbery if he saw him again. And that was why Arbery turned and attacked Travis instead of stopping or just continuing to run down the street or trying to run away through a yard.

There has been a lot of discussion in this thread and on the Internet on why Arbery chose to run toward Travis instead of taking some other actions. I haven't seen anybody but DeJudge who have claimed that Arbery didn't actually turn and run toward Travis. Or even charge toward Travis. Or even that his intent wasn't to attack Travis.

Of course that is what he was doing.

I said I thought maybe Arbery attacked Travis because Travis had previously threated Arbery. DeJudge objected to the characterization that Arbery attacked Travis because Travis shot first. OK. Pedantic. But it doesn't matter for what I said. So I agreed to change "attacked Travis" "ran at Travis". But DeJudge still objected...for illogical reasons.

So now we are somehow caught in a silly debate about whether or not Arbery ran at Travis, even though he obviously did. But we have to get into whether Travis was the first to attack or what Arbery did before he got to the front of the truck and ran toward Travis and whether it excuses the murders and so on and what not.

My only point is that Arbery turned and ran toward Travis. And I think there is the possibility that he may have done that rather than more safer options because maybe Travis had previously threatened him.

Or...we can argue for a few more pages about whether or not Arbery ran toward Travis while raises issues not related to resolving that specific question, which should have been easily resolved and dismissed in the first place.

You are berating people for coming up with theories not supported by evidence, when you are doing exactly the same. Why is that? Are your theories somehow more reasoned and skeptical? I don’t think so.

 

[Skeptic Tank]

Does a black man with a law degree cause you discomfort?

Seeing anyone who is inflammatory and dishonest with a law degree (such as Merit or Sunny Hostin) causes me concern.

Seeing anyone who is incredibly stupid with a law degree (such as Crump) causes me concern.

They are little markers of a civilization dying.

The nice thing is, there still isn't any huge society-wide apparatus set up to try to ensure that dumb and unethical white guys end up with law degrees, like there is for blacks. Still happens sometimes, of course, but because of that apparatus (and because of other realities/averages) a much higher percentage of black men with law degrees are going to be of this caliber.

I've seen some impressive black lawyers though. I think in a society that actually held people to the same standards and didn't do all this coddling and fudging of numbers, you'd still end up with some blacks in higher education, sciences, law, etc. but it would be incredibly rare. Naturally our society isn't prepared to tolerate that and needs to feel like they're seeing it happen often enough, which can only be done with a bunch of scamming.

 

[dejudge]

You realise that this makes no sense, don’t you? Why would the McMichaels falsely claim they were chasing Arbery when this admission would hurt their case?

Well, why did they not admit they were waiting for the jogger at the junction of Satilla Drive long before he arrived?

It makes sense for the McMichaels to fabricate a story which they believed would help them.

You don't seem to realize that the McMichaels did not know at the time that Roddy had a video of the event.

 

[lionking]

Well, why did they not admit they were waiting for the jogger at the junction of Satilla Drive long before he arrived?

It makes sense for the McMichaels to fabricate a story which they believed would help them.

You don't seem to realize that the McMichaels did not know at the time that Roddy had a video of the event.

Are you certain of this? If so, why?

 

[dejudge]

Well, the thing is, this is how forums work. To argue a specific point I have to make specific arguments, and those arguments aren't arguments about general discussion. And some posters whom someone might argue against derail arguments with irrelevant arguments, so when other address the specific arguments they become relevant to the general discussion but not the specific argument and the thread goes on for years and years.

Moving on:

In the video I see Travis moving around to the front of the truck. Arbery gets to the front of the truck and deliberately turns left to attack Travis. A split second after we hear the gunshot we see Arbery charging into Travis at the left comer of the truck.

So Travis was moving toward Arbery. With a loaded shotgun. And Greg was yelling "Stop! Dammit, STOP!"

I think Arbery had a lot of options. Stop. Wait for the police. Ignore them and keep running forward. Run away.

All of those are more logical and safer options that charging a redneck with a shotgun. And another redneck the back of the truck. And another person following from behind.

I think the option Arbery chose was very extreme and the most dangerous. I think the chances that he would have lived would have been much, much higher if he had chosen any other option.

So I do find it a bit strange that he attacked or turned to attack to charged or ran at or tuned toward of whatever phrase you want to use.

So i was thinking that his actions was unusual...unless Travis had threatened him on 2/11. If that had happened, it would go a long way to explain both Arbery's actions but even also the McMichaels actions.

Just speculation. But it would make things make much more senible.

Your speculation is not based on the evidence.

Look at the video.

Arbery did attempt to evade Travis.

It was Arbery who first moved away from Travis who was armed with a shot and possibly aiming it at him.

After Arbery ran behind the truck Travis armed with shotgun moved towards the front of truck and fired a shot at Arbery.

There is no evidence that Travis did anything other than attack and kill Arbery.

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

You are berating people for coming up with theories not supported by evidence, when you are doing exactly the same. Why is that? Are your theories somehow more reasoned and skeptical? I don’t think so.

I didn't present that theory as true or as having any evidence. I even said as much. Just a speculation of a possibility where there is no proof one way or the other.