Jogging in Georgia while black.

[DevilsAdvocate]

Based on the released video of the killing, it was Travis who first attacked Arbery and fired a shot directly at him from in front the truck.

OK, then: That would go a long way in explaining why Arbery attacked turned and ran toward Travis.

 

[Busta Capp]

Gregory McMichael, one of Ahmaud Arbery's alleged murderers, was a point person for cops just months before the killing ... because we've learned police told at least one neighbor if there was a trespass, he should call McMichael and not them.

According to text messages between an officer of the Glynn County Police Department and Larry English, the owner of the home under construction where Ahmaud's alleged killers claim he was trespassing, police told English to call Greg instead of cops whenever Larry needed assistance.

https://www.tmz.com/2020/05/15/ahma...enlisted-suspects-help-months-before-shooting

 

[Busta Capp]

The 1st text is months, the last one is days, but that's from English.

 

[dejudge]

I think it is pretty evident the McMichaels were chasing him. That's what Greg says they were doing.

What the McMichaels say cannot be accepted as facts. It is pretty evident that they were waiting for the jogger with guns in hand in the only released video.

In the police report he says they were at their home when Greg saw him running down the street. They got their guns, got in the truck, and started chasing him. They pulled ahead of him to cut him off but he turned around and started running the other way. So they headed back and pulled ahead of him again to cut him off.

You don't seem to understand the difference between statements made by the accused and the truth.

You must have forgotten the person who took the video has denied claims made by Greg.

In the Police report, Greg claimed Roddy attempted to block the jogger but such a claim was denied by Roddy.

That is consistent with everything we see. In the video from across the street, shortly after Arbery runs past we can see what looks like a vehicle pulling out at what appears to be the McMichaels residence. Arbery is running up Satilla toward Holmes. Then in the murder video we see Roddy following Arbery, but Arbery is running down Holmes back toward Satilla. The McMichaels truck is now on Holmes facing back toward Satilla, indicated that they had gone up Holmes and then turned around and went back toward Satilla.

That is all consistent with what Greg said in the police report. And neither Roddy nor the police nor GBI nor Merritt have refuted those facts.

You seem not to have read all the Police report. The report is not consistent with what is on the released video

Greg claimed when they arrived at the junction of Satilla and Holmes the jogger was running on Buford and that Travis attempted to cut him off but he turned around and ran in the direction from which he came and that Roddy tried to block him but failed.

Please, remember that Roddy has denied taking part in the supposed chase of the jogger.

Somebody is lying.

Also, when Greg called 911 at around 1:14 pm he falsely claimed he did not know which street he was on although he was parked at a junction of the very road where he lived and less than 400 yards away and while his son was killing Arbery.

 

[Robin]

OK, then: That would go a long way in explaining why Arbery attacked turned and ran toward Travis.

Are we watching the same video?

Travis is quite far to the left of the truck. Arbery dodges to the right, away from him.

By the time the camera is back on them, Travis has moved to in front of the truck, in other words, towards Arbery.

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

What the McMichaels say cannot be accepted as facts. It is pretty evident that they were waiting for the jogger with guns in hand in the only released video.



You don't seem to understand the difference between statements made by the accused and the truth.

You must have forgotten the person who took the video has denied claims made by Greg.

In the Police report, Greg claimed Roddy attempted to block the jogger but such a claim was denied by Roddy.


You seem not to have read all the Police report. The report is not consistent with what is on the released video

Greg claimed when they arrived at the junction of Satilla and Holmes the jogger was running on Buford and that Travis attempted to cut him off but he turned around and ran in the direction from which he came and that Roddy tried to block him but failed.

Please, remember that Roddy has denied taking part in the supposed chase of the jogger.

Somebody is lying.

Also, when Greg called 911 at around 1:14 pm he falsely claimed he did not know which street he was on although he was parked at a junction of the very road where he lived and less than 400 yards away and while his son was killing Arbery.

I'm not going into a an endless point by point analysis of the logical fallacies here like the Historical Jesus thread.

What Roddy did or didn't do is irrelevant to the question of whether the McMichaels were chasing Arbery.

In the police report Greg obviously mixed up Holmes and Burford, which may explain why he said he didn't know what street he was not. Greg doesn;t seem that sharp.

Whatever Roddy was did and whether Greg was confused or lying about the names of the streets, the evidence I presented shows quite clearly that the McMichaels were chasing Arbery.

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

Are we watching the same video?

Travis is quite far to the left of the truck. Arbery dodges to the right, away from him.

By the time the camera is back on them, Travis has moved to in front of the truck, in other words, towards Arbery.

When Arbery gets to the front of the truck, he turns left and runs toward Travis. He doesn't just keep running straight down the road. Travis is coming around the left side of the truck moving toward Arbery. When the shot is fired, Arbery is charging into Travis who is on the front left corner of the truck. Arbery clearly turned left at the front of the truck and ran toward Travis. Before the shot was fired. I don't think that is even controversial.

 

[dejudge]

What Roddy did or didn't do is irrelevant to the question of whether the McMichaels were chasing Arbery.

What a witness to the killing of Arbery did or did not do is irrelevant?? Nothing can be more absurd!!!
You must have never been to or heard about court trials.
What Witnesses to a crime did or did not do is extremely significant in court trials.

In the police report Greg obviously mixed up Holmes and Burford, which may explain why he said he didn't know what street he was not. Greg doesn;t seem that sharp.

Why do you assume he was mixed up? He must have known the name of the street he lived on? Greg was at the junction of Satilla Drive the very street he lived on and told the 911 dispatcher he did not know the name of the street.

Whatever Roddy was did and whether Greg was confused or lying about the names of the streets, the evidence I presented shows quite clearly that the McMichaels were chasing Arbery.

You have presented no evidence whatsoever that the McMichaels were chasing Arbery.

The only evidence from the released video does not corroborate any chase at all. It shows a parked or stopped truck where a person exits the driver side with a shotgun and other in the back while Arbery is running towards the truck which is at least 10 seconds away and then is shot and killed by the person with the shotgun.

The video is the evidence not the claims in the Police report by the accused murderers.

 

[dejudge]

When Arbery gets to the front of the truck, he turns left and runs toward Travis. He doesn't just keep running straight down the road. Travis is coming around the left side of the truck moving toward Arbery. When the shot is fired, Arbery is charging into Travis who is on the front left corner of the truck. Arbery clearly turned left at the front of the truck and ran toward Travis. Before the shot was fired. I don't think that is even controversial.

The jogger clearly moved from the left side of road and to the right side behind the truck. Travis then clearly moved from the left side of the road and towards the right side in front the truck and shot at Arbery as he comes to the right front of the truck.

The video clearly shows that Travis first attacked Arbery by shooting him.

 

[lionking]

What a witness to the killing of Arbery did or did not do is irrelevant?? Nothing can be more absurd!!!
You must have never been to or heard about court trials.
What Witnesses to a crime did or did not do is extremely significant in court trials.




Why do you assume he was mixed up? He must have known the name of the street he lived on? Greg was at the junction of Satilla Drive the very street he lived on and told the 911 dispatcher he did not know the name of the street.



You have presented no evidence whatsoever that the McMichaels were chasing Arbery.

The only evidence from the released video does not corroborate any chase at all. It shows a parked or stopped truck where a person exits the driver side with a shotgun and other in the back while Arbery is running towards the truck which is at least 10 seconds away and then is shot and killed by the person with the shotgun.

The video is the evidence not the claims in the Police report by the accused murderers.

You realise that this makes no sense, don’t you? Why would the McMichaels falsely claim they were chasing Arbery when this admission would hurt their case?

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

What a witness to the killing of Arbery did or did not do is irrelevant

...to the question of whether the McMichaels were chasing Arbery. I have no interest in playing obtuse games in this thread.

Why do you assume he was mixed up? He must have known the name of the street he lived on? Greg was at the junction of Satilla Drive the very street he lived on and told the 911 dispatcher he did not know the name of the street.

I addressed exactly that issue in my previous post and presented evidence for why the evidence supports that he mixed up the street names and that it was not some convoluted conspiracy that would require mountains of nonexistent evidence.

The only evidence from the released video does not corroborate any chase at all.

Yes, it does corroborate the claim. I explained exactly how it corroborates the claim.

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

The jogger clearly moved from the left side of road and to the right side behind the truck.

That is irrelevant to the question of whether or not Arbery turned to run toward Travis at the front of the truck.

Travis then clearly moved from the left side of the road and towards the right side in front the truck

That is irrelevant to the question of whether or not Arbery turned to run toward Travis at the front of the truck.

and shot at Arbery as he comes to the right front of the truck.

Arbery turned left at the front of the truck before the shot was fired.

The video clearly shows that Travis first attacked Arbery by shooting him.

That is irrelevant to the question of whether or not Arbery turned to run toward Travis at the front of the truck.

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

You have presented no evidence whatsoever that the McMichaels were chasing Arbery.

I have presented affirmative evidence to support my conclusions. You may present affirmative evidence for your conclusions. I am not going to play a game of Ignoratio Elenchi Chewbacca Gish Gallop. I am not going down this rabbit hole.

 

[Skeptic Tank]

When Arbery gets to the front of the truck, he turns left and runs toward Travis. He doesn't just keep running straight down the road. Travis is coming around the left side of the truck moving toward Arbery. When the shot is fired, Arbery is charging into Travis who is on the front left corner of the truck. Arbery clearly turned left at the front of the truck and ran toward Travis. Before the shot was fired. I don't think that is even controversial.

It isn't controversial, but you have some people in here, and this exact same thing happened with Trayvon as well, who really seem to struggle with understanding certain things about these cases particularly with layout, timing, and what sorts of things are worthy of being skeptical of, while other things are simply obvious, uncontroversial facts.

It always amazes me at the weird little conspiracy theories people will generate about things like "oh he's lying he didn't know the street name" - this exact same thing existed for Zimmerman.

No, people sometimes don't know what street they're on. Not hard to believe at all. People also get flummoxed and confused during stressful events like this, which makes it doubly believable.

Seeing someone come along with some weird theory about "they weren't chasing him" is just comical. It's like everyone is trying to come up with some novelty take that makes them even MORE racist and even BIGGER murderers, but a lot of the angles they latch onto don't even make sense for that purpose.

 

[Busta Capp]

[qimg]https://imagez.tmz.com/image/92/4by3/2020/05/16/921c58fa45284851bc8d18f59d7363b2_md.png[/qimg]

Doesn't this picture prove English was relaying to police that there were issues @ his construction site, regardless of what he says now ??

 

[sir drinks-a-lot]

The jogger clearly moved from the left side of road and to the right side behind the truck. Travis then clearly moved from the left side of the road and towards the right side in front the truck and shot at Arbery as he comes to the right front of the truck.

The video clearly shows that Travis first attacked Arbery by shooting him.

The video may (or may not) show that, but in either case I don't think it's clear at all. I certainly didn't see it that way, and I just now rewatched the video in the OP at 1/4 speed and don't think it's clear at all. From Wikipedia:

As Arbery approaches the pickup truck, shouting can be heard. Arbery then crosses from the left side of the road to the right side and runs around the passenger's side of the truck. After passing the truck's front, Arbery turns left. Meanwhile, Travis McMichael, holding his shotgun, approaches Arbery at the truck's front. The camera's view of the confrontation between Arbery and Travis is then momentarily blocked.

Several media accounts of the video report that the audio of the first gunshot seems to be heard before Arbery and Travis struggle with each other. Some media accounts first report a struggle, and then mention the gunshot(s). Other media accounts describe that it was "not possible" to see from the video what was happening when the first gunshot was fired, or report that the truck "blocks the view of how the men first engage each other" with regard to when the gunshot is heard.

 

[lionking]

The video may (or may not) show that, but in either case I don't think it's clear at all. I certainly didn't see it that way, and I just now rewatched the video in the OP at 1/4 speed and don't think it's clear at all. From Wikipedia:

You know how Wikipedia works, I hope.

The early days of a contested, divisive wiki article is little more than an edit war.

 

[Skeptic Tank]

Doesn't this picture prove English was relaying to police that there were issues @ his construction site, regardless of what he says now ??

Yes.

English sees what's going on now with the death threats William Bryant has gotten, and he says his family has gotten them too actually.

He sees that the entire world (media, idiots) have decided that this common, garden variety thug criminal that was preying on his neighborhood and his property in particular, is actually some sort of Saint figure and he knows he'd better do whatever he can to avoid being viewed as having played any part in him dying or calling down the forces of accountability upon him, or getting police attention on him.

He doesn't want to be seen as doing anything which tips the scales in the direction of "Amaud actually wasn't such a great guy" even if that just means telling the truth about what was going on with is property.

So he'll downplay, he'll insist videos that clearly show Amaud must be someone else, he'll talk about how much sympathy he has for the family, he'll say he doesn't know for sure anything was stolen, he'll say he didn't know the McMichaels at all, etc.

I mean you can't really blame the guy on some level, but it's still disappointing.

 

[sir drinks-a-lot]

You know how Wikipedia works, I hope.

The early days of a contested, divisive wiki article is little more than an edit war.

Yes, I know how Wikipedia works, but I think that has little relevance. I watched the video myself and it's certainly not clear. The Wikipedia entry I quoted was heavily footnoted and the lack of consensus by the various media sources linked also suggest it's unclear. Apparently, there is additional video of the shooting so we'll probably find out eventually.

 

[Busta Capp]

The Wikipedia entry seems as non committal as can be, regardless of how we feel Wikipedia "works."