Biden for President?

[Stacyhs]

At the risk of being told yet again how an accuser's credibility is completely irrelevant, Politico paints a pretty damning picture of Reade's past behavior including lying, serial failure to pay rent, borrow money, misrepresent her time and role on Biden's staff and praise Biden.There is much more than what I've quoted below.

‘Manipulative, deceitful, user’: Tara Reade left a trail of aggrieved acquaintances
A number of those who crossed paths with Biden’s accuser say they remember two things: She spoke favorably about her time working for Biden, and she left them feeling duped.

Reade had spoken highly of Biden, the former boss who employed her as a staff assistant from late 1992 to August 1993, and never mentioned assault or harassment, Wrye recalls. But what Wrye remembers most is that by the time Reade left their property and moved on, Wrye felt burned.After her husband suffered a brain injury that forced the couple to sell the property, Wrye said, Reade turned on them.
“She became really difficult,” Wrye said. “She said, ‘You’re going to have to pay me to get me to leave.’” “She was manipulative,” said Wrye, a self-described feminist and social activist. “She was always saying she was going to get it together, but she couldn’t. And ‘could you help her’?”

Wrye’s distressing experience with Reade wasn’t an isolated case. Over the past decade, Reade has left a trail of aggrieved acquaintances in California’s Central Coast region who say they remember two things about her — she spoke favorably about her time working for Biden, and she left them feeling duped.

A number of those in close contact with Reade over the past 12 years, a period in which she went by the names Tara Reade, Tara McCabe or Alexandra McCabe, laid out a familiar pattern: Reade ingratiated herself, explained she was down on her luck and needed help, and eventually took advantage of their goodwill to extract money, skip rent payments or walk out on other bills.

But many of those who knew her well in recent years said she frequently lied or sought to manipulate them, in many instances taking advantage of their desire to help a person they felt was down on her luck. “You can use these words: manipulative, deceitful, user,” said Kelly Klett, an attorney who rented Reade a room in her home in 2018. “Looking back at it all now, that is exactly how I view her and how I feel about her.”

Like Wrye, Austin Chung, a Monterey-area real estate investor who rented Reade a house from 2008-10, learned of Reade’s charges against Biden from television.
“Look,” he told his wife when he first saw Reade on the screen, “she has gone big time. She’s going after the big fish now.” Chung said Reade, who went by Alexandra McCabe at the time, claimed that she was on the run from domestic violence and trying to start over.

(Remember that Reade's husband had divorced her in 1996, twelve years earlier.)

But then the payments came in late, month after month. Her explanations always sounded sincere and convincing, Chung said, so he reduced her rent and tried to come up with a compromise. Eventually, however, he had to evict Reade.

When he confronted her, Chung said, “She knew exactly what she had done to me and there was no remorse. I knew there was never a chance I’d get my money back.”

Klett said she’s now struck by Reade’s allegations about Biden. Over months of talks about the law and women’s advocacy, Klett said Reade’s take on Biden never wavered. “In the time that she lived with me in close proximity,” she said, “there was never one allegation against Joe Biden that was disparaging.”

Five of her acquaintances have specific recollections where Reade spoke in positive terms about Biden, as recently as 2018, one year before she lodged an initial charge against Biden that he had sexually harassed her. (In 2020, Reade offered new details, claiming that Biden sexually assaulted her in a Senate hallway.)
According to their accounts, Reade proactively brought up the former vice president’s name, pointing to her time in his Senate office as a high point in her career. Those interviewed said they were under the impression that Reade spent years in his office or had played a role in helping write landmark legislation, though she actually served in a junior level position for less than a year.

 

[Puppycow]

At the risk of being told yet again how an accuser's credibility is completely irrelevant, Politico paints a pretty damning picture of Reade's past behavior including lying, serial failure to pay rent, borrow money, misrepresent her time and role on Biden's staff and praise Biden. There is much more than what I've quoted below.

I think your link might be broken there. Here's another:

‘Manipulative, deceitful, user’: Tara Reade left a trail of aggrieved acquaintances

 

[Stacyhs]

I think your link might be broken there. Here's another:

‘Manipulative, deceitful, user’: Tara Reade left a trail of aggrieved acquaintances

Thanks. Blocked for some reason. Fixed now.

 

[theprestige]

At the risk of being told yet again how an accuser's credibility is completely irrelevant, Politico paints a pretty damning picture of Reade's past behavior including lying, serial failure to pay rent, borrow money, misrepresent her time and role on Biden's staff and praise Biden.There is much more than what I've quoted below.[/B]

That's a lot of unnecessary effort being put into an ad hom when the claim itself isn't supported anyway.

Why does the left hate Reade so much?

Is it because she waited until after Biden was the presumptive nominee, instead of coming forward back when there was still a chance for Bernie or Warren?

 

[Elagabalus]

Counterpoint: Nowadays any even slightly-popular politician can be confident that there's a social media brigade ready and waiting to do all the dirty work he could possibly hope for. It costs Biden nothing to take the high road, when there's a whole Twitter army enthusiastically taking the low road on his behalf. He has the luxury of being able to easily crowdsource the kind of smear campaign that Nixon would have had to assign to the FBI.


The fact that he used the same crappy deflection tactic in all three examples suggests that he's got the same crappy position in all three cases.

Some politicians even favor taking the low road with their keyboard warriors.

Trump Tweets

Where is the 302? It is missing. Was it stolen or destroyed? General Flynn is being persecuted! #OBAMAGATE

Thank you to all of my great Keyboard Warriors. You are better, and far more brilliant, than anyone on Madison Avenue (Ad Agencies). There is nobody like you!

 

[wareyin]

That's a lot of unnecessary effort being put into an ad hom when the claim itself isn't supported anyway.

Why does the left hate Reade so much?

Is it because she waited until after Biden was the presumptive nominee, instead of coming forward back when there was still a chance for Bernie or Warren?

Look, just because someone has a long history of falsely claiming to be a victim in order to get attention, sympathy, money, lodgings, or other goods, what could that possibly have to do with this instance of her claiming to be a victim?

Why do you assume all those people accusing Reade of lies and manipulation in that article are "the left"? I wasn't aware they gave any political affiliation. Or is the claim that Politico is left wing?

 

[theprestige]

Some politicians even favor taking the low road with their keyboard warriors.

Rent free.

 

[theprestige]

Look, just because someone has a long history of falsely claiming to be a victim in order to get attention, sympathy, money, lodgings, or other goods, what could that possibly have to do with this instance of her claiming to be a victim?

Whatever it may or may have to do with it, it's not necessary.

You don't have to put this much effort into destroying her reputation. You just want to.

 

[Puppycow]

That's a lot of unnecessary effort being put into an ad hom when the claim itself isn't supported anyway.

Why does the left hate Reade so much?

Is it because she waited until after Biden was the presumptive nominee, instead of coming forward back when there was still a chance for Bernie or Warren?

I don't speak for "the left" but that is precisely one of the big reasons why I'm skeptical. I would have preferred Buttigieg, or Klobuchar or Bullock or someone else though, not Bernie or Warren. Any of the more mainstream moderate candidates pretty much. I always thought Biden had too much baggage, and he won mainly due to name recognition and his association with Obama.

 

[wareyin]

Whatever it may or may have to do with it, it's not necessary.

You don't have to put this much effort into destroying her reputation. You just want to.

How much effort do you think reading the articles being posted in this very thread is costing me?

I'm not destroying her reputation, it actually appears that she is. I didn't make a decades long career of lying to, stealing from, and manipulating people. I didn't go around to interview what appears like a lot of people coming out of the woodworks with the same story. I don't even go out and look for these articles. I just read what's posted here.

 

[Cain]

That's a lot of unnecessary effort being put into an ad hom when the claim itself isn't supported anyway.

What are you talking about? You don't think these people from the past undermine her credibility? People are independently describing her as manipulative and deceitful.

This is precisely the kind of report that should resonate with right-wingers: "A past her prime woman manufacturing drama because her life has slipped into irrelevance." The difference between Biden and Trump is that Trump would call her an ugly loser.

Why does the left hate Reade so much?

Is it because she waited until after Biden was the presumptive nominee, instead of coming forward back when there was still a chance for Bernie or Warren?

Now this is an ad hominem. The stakes have been raised, so, yes, we can expect more intense hatred from loyal Democrats, but that has little to do with this report unless you're suggesting tribal politics has affected these witness accounts.

Reade's credibility got a boost from the Larry King confirmation, and she probably did feel Biden behaved inappropriately at one point, but her story has fallen apart. What's just gobsmacking is that I barely know the names of any of Trump's over two dozen accusers. We also know Trump has bragged about kissing and grabbing women without permission.

 

[Suddenly]

At the risk of being told yet again how an accuser's credibility is completely irrelevant, Politico paints a pretty damning picture of Reade's past behavior including lying, serial failure to pay rent, borrow money, misrepresent her time and role on Biden's staff and praise Biden.h Tere is much more than what I've quoted below.

Credibility is relevant. It just isn't a brick wall.

So sure, she has some problems in her past that suggest someone for whom being manipulative is a survival skill.

On the other Biden is also a known manipulative liar given his fantasies about South Africa and his stories about Corn Pop and The Razor of Wisdom or whatever. He lied about a speech being original and that doomed him as a serious player until the Democrats pulled him from the discard pile to balance an Obama ticket. He has a history of touching women inappropriately.

So sure, he has some problems in his past and is willing to be manipulative in pursuit of political power.

 

[xjx388]

How much effort do you think reading the articles being posted in this very thread is costing me?

I'm not destroying her reputation, it actually appears that she is. I didn't make a decades long career of lying to, stealing from, and manipulating people. I didn't go around to interview what appears like a lot of people coming out of the woodworks with the same story. I don't even go out and look for these articles. I just read what's posted here.

“A decades long career . . .” Those are your words, not anything you “just read,” here. You have put that particular spin on the allegations against her.

You haven’t questioned them. Never once doubted them. Haven’t shown any kind of, “hey, maybe it’s not such a good idea to trash a woman who accuses a powerful man of sexual assault?”

So no, you aren’t the one digging the stuff up; you are just one of the ones calling it gold when it’s nothing but trash.

 

[Stacyhs]

That's a lot of unnecessary effort being put into an ad hom when the claim itself isn't supported anyway.

Why does the left hate Reade so much?

Is it because she waited until after Biden was the presumptive nominee, instead of coming forward back when there was still a chance for Bernie or Warren?

You put a lot of unnecessary effort into defending the falsehood that credibility is unimportant.
How is interviewing people who have a personal knowledge of Reade and give example after example of how she lied, manipulated them, repeatedly failed to pay her rent, repeatedly borrowed money she failed to pay back, lied about escaping from her abusive husband to get sympathy and money, and spent years praising Biden an "ad hom"?

The "left" doesn't hate Reade. And you know that. But it's a catchy piece of rhetoric you like to employ because you think it works. It doesn't.

What Reade's motivation is only she knows. But I think one of her victims in the article might have hit the nail on the head:

“Look,” he told his wife when he first saw Reade on the screen, “she has gone big time. She’s going after the big fish now.”

 

[Stacyhs]

Whatever it may or may have to do with it, it's not necessary.

You don't have to put this much effort into destroying her reputation. You just want to.

And you just want to believe Reade so exposing her long history of manipulation, attention seeking, dishonesty, and theft doesn't work for you. Somehow, I have the distinct feeling that if Blasey-Ford's past included such a history you wouldn't be hand waving it away so casually. But you'd never admit that.
fr
ETA: If you exchanged Reade for Blasey-Ford and Biden for Kavenaugh, I wouldn't have believed a word out of B-Ford's mouth.

 

[wareyin]

“A decades long career . . .” Those are your words, not anything you “just read,” here. You have put that particular spin on the allegations against her.

Oh my goodness, I read an article that described these actions happening over and over again for more than two decades and I described it as decades long! Oh, heavens to betsy the effort!

You haven’t questioned them. Never once doubted them. Haven’t shown any kind of, “hey, maybe it’s not such a good idea to trash a woman who accuses a powerful man of sexual assault?”

So no, you aren’t the one digging the stuff up; you are just one of the ones calling it gold when it’s nothing but trash.

If you spent the same energy questioning Reade's motives as you want everyone else to spend on everyone else from Reade's past who describes those motives in less than glowing terms, I wonder where we'd be.

Why should I be questioning the multiple independent witnesses testifying in the multiple stories written in multiple researched articles, rather than the latest version of Reade's story?

 

[theprestige]

You put a lot of unnecessary effort into defending the falsehood that credibility is unimportant.

I feel like I put in the appropriate amount of effort into debating questions of critical thinking on a forum dedicated to the same.

I'm not sure Politico is or should be dedicated to partisan character assassination. But, if that is actually their charter, then I withdraw the accusation.

How is interviewing people who have a personal knowledge of Reade and give example after example of how she lied, manipulated them, repeatedly failed to pay her rent, repeatedly borrowed money she failed to pay back, lied about escaping from her abusive husband to get sympathy and money, and spent years praising Biden an "ad hom"?

It's an attempt to refute her claim by attacking her personal history, rather than by attacking her claim as such. It's literally an ad hom.

Do you believe that attacking her claim directly is insufficient to refute it?

 

[wareyin]

It's an attempt to refute her claim by attacking her personal history, rather than by attacking her claim as such. It's literally an ad hom.

You shouldn't believe this person because they lie all the time is not an ad hom.

I'm curious, here's a hypothetical. Your brother in law borrows your tools all the time and never returns them or breaks them. At some point, do you think it's not a good idea to lend him another tool, or do you just plow in with this 'just because a person has a long history of doing this same bad action is no reason to think it could be happening again' and hand him your brand new table saw?

 

[Stacyhs]

How much effort do you think reading the articles being posted in this very thread is costing me?

I'm not destroying her reputation, it actually appears that she is. I didn't make a decades long career of lying to, stealing from, and manipulating people. I didn't go around to interview what appears like a lot of people coming out of the woodworks with the same story. I don't even go out and look for these articles. I just read what's posted here.

Exactly. All these people are not just making this up out of thin air. Reade's reputation is all due to her own actions. No one else's.

 

[theprestige]

And you just want to believe Reade so exposing her long history of manipulation, attention seeking, dishonesty, and theft doesn't work for you. Somehow, I have the distinct feeling that if Blasey-Ford's past included such a history you wouldn't be hand waving it away so casually. But you'd never admit that.

Regardless of what I want, I don't think Reade's claim has enough support to be accepted as true. I actually get to the same place you do, in spite of my biases, and without having to go all in on assassinating her character.

Why is it so important to you to do that?