The all-new "US Politics and coronavirus" thread

[acbytesla]

Public health officials thinks it's a risky strategy, they've said so many times. Not to single out Governor Abbott, though, because it seems to be a common strategy among Republican leaders. As Texas lt. gov. Dan Patrick told Tucker Carlson, twice, "There's more important things than living."

Can you imagine a politician saying something like that on a network TV show? And during an epidemic. There's more important things than living. What's even scarier is, he must think his base will agree.

I think they have just accepted that the deaths are inevitable so let those who will live get on with their lives.

 

[JoeMorgue]

I think they have just accepted that the deaths are inevitable so let those who will live get on with their lives.

There's been a strain of defeatist nihilism in parts of the American psyche for a while now.

There are people who stopped caring about the world after they gave up on ever being able to live in their ideal version of it.

There is a strong "I just want to watch the world burn" subtext to a lot of this. Again this is what I think is so very often missed with the whole "I don't understand! Don't they see that Trump isn't making any thing better for them!" criticisms I see so often leveled at Trump supporters.

It's not wrong per se, but it is missing the point that, yeah that know that.

 

[newyorkguy]

I think they have just accepted that the deaths are inevitable so let those who will live get on with their lives.

I'm not clear on what you mean. Are you suggesting that X number of people will die of this disease, and that number is not going to rise or fall based on what steps society takes? Science clearly does not agree. Are you suggesting this is a hoax?

 

[Regnad Kcin]

Shoppers in Stillwater Oklahoma became enraged earlier this month after an order had been issued requiring shoppers to wear face masks. Stillwater is a small city of about 45,000 people in north-central Oklahoma. It is the home of Oklahoma State University. The order had been implemented by the city on May 1st and many shoppers not only objected, they became menacing to store employees.

"In the short time beginning on May 1, 2020, that face coverings have been required for entry into stores/restaurants, store employees have been threatened with physical violence and showered with verbal abuse," Stillwater City Manager Norman McNickle said in a statement. "In addition, there has been one threat of violence using a firearm. This has occurred in three short hours and in the face of clear medical evidence that face coverings helps contain the spread of Covid-19." Due to the threats of violence the city has decided to amend their emergency order but still want people to wear face masks whenever possible, the statement said.

"Many of those with objections cite the mistaken belief the requirement is unconstitutional, and under their theory, one cannot be forced to wear a mask. No law or court supports this view," said City Manager Norman McNickle in a statement. "It is further distressing that these people, while exercising their believed rights, put others at risk. It is unfortunate and distressing that those who refuse and threaten violence are so self-absorbed as to not follow what is a simple show of respect and kindness to others," he said. Still, the city is changing the rule, as officials "cannot, in clear conscience, put our local business community in harm's way, nor can the police be everywhere," McNickle said.

"That...is why you fail." - Not Baby Yoda

 

[The Don]

I'm not clear on what you mean. Are you suggesting that X number of people will die of this disease, and that number is not going to rise or fall based on what steps society takes? Science clearly does not agree. Are you suggesting this is a hoax?

I don't think that implication was made and different strategies will have vastly different death counts but the indication is that the vast majority of people won't die of Coronavirus and the Texas administration think that the 90% or 99% just want to get on with their lives and the 10% or 1% should hurry up and die quickly and quietly.

 

[Delphic Oracle]

Shoppers in Stillwater Oklahoma became enraged earlier this month after an order had been issued requiring shoppers to wear face masks. Stillwater is a small city of about 45,000 people in north-central Oklahoma. It is the home of Oklahoma State University. The order had been implemented by the city on May 1st and many shoppers not only objected, they became menacing to store employees. .

Doing the right thing is so haaaaaard.

Another example of abuse and violence getting results. Surely that will reduce the frequency of abuse and violence.

 

[acbytesla]

I'm not clear on what you mean. Are you suggesting that X number of people will die of this disease, and that number is not going to rise or fall based on what steps society takes? Science clearly does not agree. Are you suggesting this is a hoax?

I don't think it is a hoax. I know it's not a hoax.

I'm saying this is how the GOP politicians are viewing this. That while they may save a few lives staying shut down, it is not worth the economic disaster this is causing. That yes social distancing has worked to slow the effects of the virus, but eventually everyone will get the virus.

 

[Dr.Sid]

I don't think it is a hoax. I know it's not a hoax.

I'm saying this is how the GOP politicians are viewing this. That while they may save a few lives staying shut down, it is not worth the economic disaster this is causing. That yes social distancing has worked to slow the effects of the virus, but eventually everyone will get the virus.

So you are suggesting that it doesn't matter if you die today or tomorrow ? That it's impossible that vaccine or other treatment will show up, affecting the outcome dramatically ?

 

[newyorkguy]

Okay I understand. I thought you were responding to Dan Patrick's statement that, "There's more important things than living." You meant the GOP leadership being willing to accept a higher number of people dying in exchange for getting the economy going. I agree for the most part. trump actually said that.

President Donald Trump on Tuesday [May 5th] acknowledged that reopening parts of the nation’s economy now, against the advice of many health experts, would inevitably cost some Americans their lives. But he argued that the benefits outweighed the costs. "Yes, will some people be affected? Yes. Will some people be affected badly? Yes. But we have to get our country opened and we have to get it open soon.” Link

What is happening in this country? We've really been cursed to have trump as our president at a time like this.

 

[acbytesla]

So you are suggesting that it doesn't matter if you die today or tomorrow ? That it's impossible that vaccine or other treatment will show up, affecting the outcome dramatically ?

No, I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that a Republican party owned by the wealthy consider these to be simply acceptable losses when compared to the loss of their power.

They will do everything in their power to dramatically underestimate the death toll all the while they say how they are saving our jobs and the country's future.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Courtesy of your "leading the world" POTUS:

First: A Seattle lab uncovered Washington's coronavirus outbreak only after defying federal regulators

There was a in-home test for flu for a study. When patients tested negative for flu and everything else, they tested for COVID 19 and positive tests started showing up in Feb.

The first U.S. outbreak was in Washington state, where authorities confirmed the first patient — suffering from respiratory problems after visiting Wuhan, China — only after the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention made an exception to strict testing criteria. In Seattle, Dr. Helen Chu, an infectious disease expert who was part of an ongoing flu-monitoring effort, the Seattle Flu Study, asked permission to test their trove of collected flu swabs for coronavirus.
State health officials joined Chu in asking the CDC and Food and Drug Administration to waive privacy rules and allow clinical tests in a research lab, citing the threat of significant loss of life. The CDC and FDA said no. "We felt like we were sitting, waiting for the pandemic to emerge," Chu told the Times. "We could help. We couldn't do anything."

They held off for a couple of weeks, but on Feb. 25, Chu and her colleagues "began performing coronavirus tests, without government approval," the Times reports....

..."In the days since the teenager's test, the Seattle region has spun into crisis, with dozens of people testing positive and at least 22 dying," the Times notes. "The scientists said they believe that they will find evidence that the virus was infecting people even earlier, and that they could have alerted authorities sooner if they had been allowed to test." Read more about the red tape at The New York Times. Peter Weber

Since that time, the FDA gave Abbott emergency permission to use their rapid test which suspiciously the White House just happened to be using (I think before the approval). Now it turns out that test has a large number of false negatives. Whoops! But I digress.

In the meantime the state gave the Seattle group permission to ignore the CDC and FDA and continue the home testing program. They found many more cases of COVID 19.

Of course home testing does a couple things, the number of cases found is higher, and people can get tested without significant symptoms, not what the POTUS wants, and not what Abbott wants either given they want to market their machines to clinics where they then sell the test strips.

I'm not saying these things are directly connected. If they are I hope it comes out.

But despite success finding COVID 19 cases, now we have this:
FDA Orders Bill Gates-Funded Program To HALT At-Home Covid-19 Self-Testing

The US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has ordered a Seattle-based Covid-19 testing project funded by Bill Gates to stop screening for the virus, putting the program on ice as it provided hundreds of at-home test kits each day.

The billionaire Microsoft icon announced the initiative in a blog post this week – dubbed the Seattle Coronavirus Assessment Network, or SCAN – which he said was already distributing some 300 test kits on a daily basis. As of Wednesday, however, all links to the project’s website redirect to a notice stating its operations are “currently paused” due to a conflict with the FDA.

“SCAN has been operating under an emergency use authorization (EUA) from the Washington State Department of Health,” the notice says, adding that while the FDA has allowed states to approve new Covid-19 tests, “we have been notified that under revised guidance issued on May 8th, a separate federal EUA is now required” to continue testing.

Oh, did I mention Trump touts [a different in home test] saliva coronavirus tests after FDA emergency authorization? So does he hate WA, Gates, or is this just a weird coincidence? I usually try not to get to CTish.

US News: FDA Approves First At-Home Saliva Test for COVID-19

FRIDAY, May 8, 2020 (HealthDay News) -- The first COVID-19 test using saliva samples that patients collect at home has been approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration.

The emergency use authorization was issued to Rutgers Clinical Genomics Laboratory for the diagnostic test using home-collected samples. Patients return their sample to the New Jersey-based lab in a sealed package for analysis.

The screening is the only authorized test that uses saliva samples to check for the new coronavirus that causes COVID-19. It is available only with a prescription.

Next up, new antibody testing on old blood samples is finding more than a few cases had actually began showing up in Dec. Trump doesn't want those cases counted in the totals.

 

[acbytesla]

Okay I understand. I thought you were responding to Dan Patrick's statement that, "There's more important things than living." You meant the GOP leadership being willing to accept a higher number of people dying in exchange for getting the economy going. I agree for the most part. trump actually said that.

What is happening in this country? We've really been cursed to have trump as our president at a time like this.

Wrong man at the wrong time. I had hoped that we could weather Trump. That the country wouldn't have a severe crisis which required actual leadership. It's a perfect storm I'm afraid.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Also a lot of people have gotten really good at the whole "A thousand people die, 10 thousand people die, people are gonna die either way" thing.

Again it all ties back to the base fatalism and nihilism, we can't save anybody so trying to save anybody is somehow "pretentious" or "overly dramatic." You can't perfectly live up to your values, so why have them. We can't make everything perfect, so why even improve it all?

 

[Pixel42]

What is happening in this country? We've really been cursed to have trump as our president at a time like this.

This was the nightmare scenario from the moment he was elected - a genuine national emergency whilst the ignorant narcissist was in office. The people who voted for/enabled him were taking a huge risk, and it has come back to bite them.

 

[carlitos]

There's been a strain of defeatist nihilism in parts of the American psyche for a while now.

This is a question that rarely gets asked about the opiod epidemic. Why aso many of us in so much pain that we so desperately want drugs?

 

[Meadmaker]

Also a lot of people have gotten really good at the whole "A thousand people die, 10 thousand people die, people are gonna die either way" thing.

Again it all ties back to the base fatalism and nihilism, we can't save anybody so trying to save anybody is somehow "pretentious" or "overly dramatic." You can't perfectly live up to your values, so why have them. We can't make everything perfect, so why even improve it all?

I think it's more denialism than anything else.

As long as the number of deaths is small enough that people don't think they or their loved ones are going to be among the dead, they will try and dismiss the problem. If they say that they don't care even if they themselves become victims, it's usually false bravado. They haven't internalized the possibility that, really, seriously, they could die.

 

[Emily's Cat]

This is a question that rarely gets asked about the opiod epidemic. Why aso many of us in so much pain that we so desperately want drugs?

Because the manufacturers claimed they weren't addictive but they're actually highly addictive; Because doctors hand them out like candy; Because it's largely white people who are affected.

I don't think it's any unusual level of emotional or spiritual pain driving it.

 

[p0lka]

20% is not pretty close. Next time someone talks about the gender wage gap at 79 cents, I will tell them parsman thinks that is pretty close.

Sorry, trying to catch up. What does the 20% refer to?

 

[acbytesla]

This was the nightmare scenario from the moment he was elected - a genuine national emergency whilst the ignorant narcissist was in office. The people who voted for/enabled him were taking a huge risk, and it has come back to bite them.

No, the nightmare scenario takes place if he's reelected. I can easily see a scenario where not enough people will die by November and the Orange man pulls off another electoral majority and things get far far worse and America devolves into a dystopian dictatorship even more divisive and divided between the wealthy and everyone else.

 

[BobTheCoward]

Sorry, trying to catch up. What does the 20% refer to?

Saying south Korea population (52 million) is similar to the UK (66 million).