Jogging in Georgia while black.

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Skeptic Tank said:
It would seem strange to me for some person out there to just be like "you know what? I think I'll straight up fabricate something about copper being stolen"

Possible? Sure... just seems odd. I think it's more likely that they transcribed a video or broadcast.

Let's just drop it until it gets confirmed later, if it does. This is getting tiresome.

If it makes people happy, I am prepared to say for the time being: WE HAVE NO EVIDENCE OF COPPER THEFT!

In fact, I firmly believe Mr. Arbery was making his night time visits to the site specifically to make sure nobody else was stealing anything!
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You fabricate whole screeds of fantasy (well it is lies but I was trying to be diplomatic for a nano second) to try and pretend your racism is rational yet you think it strange another racist like yourself would make a single lie up? I would say you provide us a very clear example of how indeed racists will indeed make up any old lie if they think it helps gain support for their racism. So you are the very proof for what you say you doubt does it happen. Words such as hoist and petard come to mind.
 
Checkmite said:
"Numerous videos" over the last several months and not a single one ever showing him removing anything from the place. But of course this isn't seen as exonerating by the usual suspects.

Maybe he was disabling the cameras and then stealing things, and then re-enabling them, and then walking in front of them for no particular reason.
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Ah but remember they did show him putting his hand into his shorts....
 
Skeptic Tank said:
Are the two things completely disconnected, then? According to you?
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I am saying looking strictly to rates of incarceration for an entire race does not equate to an entire race having a higher propensity to commit crimes.
 
Skeptic Tank said:
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In fact, I firmly believe Mr. Arbery was making his night time visits to the site specifically to make sure nobody else was stealing anything!
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And where is your evidence that Arbery -- not "some unidentified black male" or even just "somebody" -- was "making night time visits" to the site? Does anybody even claim that except the McMichaels?

The audio with the video indicates some moments between each shot. Here's my suspicion: The first shot -- to the hand -- was an accident during the struggle. The next two -- the kill shots to the chest -- were deliberately aimed by Travis, and if it was a pump he racked the the slide twice. Prove me wrong.
 
sir drinks-a-lot said:
Evidence?

It could have been some person on reddit or 4chan.
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Twitter has the earliest reference. It originates from here:

https://twtext.com/article/1259668882278629376

Note that the user posts a clarification that the video doesn't show him stealing anything, but says that the NBC affiliate (which would be WSAV) reported that was the reason the homeowner installed the cameras. Which also isn't true. WSAV didn't report that (at least not anywhere I can find). The only reason given for installing the cameras coms from English's attorney:

"Because the English family live 90 miles away from the home that is under construction, Mr. English had a motion-activated security camera installed."
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Sheesh. That was a long way to go for basically nothing.

ETA: It looks like that image probably didn't come from that Twitter user. I can't find an earlier version though. So it is possible the image originated somewhere else.
 
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Skeptic Tank said:
> have group of people in your society with wild level of criminality> get upset with other groups for noticing this
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You mean like a couple of swivel-eyed morons with no law enforcement credentials who think they have some god-given (and gun-assisted) right to stop whoever they like because they think "those people" might be up to no good? I agree with something you said earlier, about "social maintenance," I think was the phrase- the McMichaels certainly did a bang-up job here, took themselves right out of society- best case, they'll need to learn some new social skills in prison, and worst case, they'll end up like that other renowned social hero, George Zimmerman, drifting jobless and ostracized from place to place, broke from lawyers bill, lost their fine place and their place in the society they were so sure needed protecting. Turned out, the only thing society needed protection from was them.

And I love the way you keep painting Arbery's actions in fighting back as necessarily from a consciousness of guilt. It seems to me just as likely to have been from a consciousness of innocence, an outraged "I am a man, and I am not taking this **** from nobody!" You wouldn't understand that- you've said that you would have taken the crap and asked for more. Because, of course, as the NRA says, "an armed society is a polite society"- when you define "polite" as "cowed." You referred to society being soft and needing the protection of idiots like the McMichaelses. Speak for yourself and your society, ok? again, the only protection a decent society needs is from wannabe Judge Dredds like them.

Only one more thing I want to say- I've seen you say something like "one day, you will all be me"- presumably convinced by your stellar logic or whatever. No- that will never happen, no sizable number of people are ever going to be convinced by your "logic" to abandon simple decency in dealing with groups of people who aren't in all ways just like them. That ship has sailed, and you were born too late to be on it- just think, a hundred or so years earlier, and you could have indulged your primitive othering instincts to your hearts content, secure in knowing you were in a majority in thought as well as numbers. That's all gone and it ain't coming back- the future is coming and it doesn't care what people like you think anymore. Too bad, so sad; but you'll always have your little caves on the Internet where you can huddle around the fire and pretend that you're all the world that matters, that you're really a million and more coming.
 
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Emily's Cat said:
All of my research brings me to "C00l Elephante" on twitter. Nowhere else. And as DA already pointed out, the text and the image are straight out of an NBC affiliate article... except for the part about the copper piping. After digging through pages and pages of google, the source for the claim of copper pipes having been stolen originates with this guy on Twitter.

And if you read through his twitter, it seems pretty apparent to me that the guy is racist. I'm not usually prone to making accusations of racism, I tend to lean more toward implicit racial bias. But this guy? This guy seems racist.
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Just a correction. it is "Kool Elephante" with a K. I made the mistake of looking at this guys twitter. Trust me, don;t make that mistake, too. The man(?) is toxically racist. Awful stuff.
 
Skeptic Tank said:
Why is the whole "it's not okay to shoot and kill someone for stealing stuff" meme still going so strong in here?
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You are the one who has consistently been going on about his alleged petty theft.

You are the one who seems to think that this somehow justifies the actions of the killers.

So that is why it is still a thing here.
For the last time (lol, if only): he. was. not. shot. for. thievery.
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Again, you are the one who is claiming that the motive for hunting him him down with firearms was his alleged petty theft.

You are the one who seems to think that it is somehow reasonable, when you think someone, when you think someone has been engaged in petty theft, to chase after him with a firearm.
No matter what was or was not true about his criminality or lack thereof, no matter how legitimate confronting him was or was not, he was shot and killed for actions he took in the last few seconds of his life. Actions which included charging, punching, and wrestling for a shotgun.
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Sure, he was shot for trying to defend himself against being shot.

How unreasonable of him.
 
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Darat said:
You fabricate whole screeds of fantasy (well it is lies but I was trying to be diplomatic for a nano second) to try and pretend your racism is rational yet you think it strange another racist like yourself would make a single lie up? I would say you provide us a very clear example of how indeed racists will indeed make up any old lie if they think it helps gain support for their racism. So you are the very proof for what you say you doubt does it happen. Words such as hoist and petard come to mind.
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It seems needlessly combative and inaccurate to refer to speculation (you know, me suggesting scenarios that fit what evidence we have) as "lies."

If I'm faced with a thread full of people expressing incredulity at various things, it seems perfectly natural for me to suggest things which make the puzzle pieces fit together logically. Including suggesting possible motivations or thought processes on the part of the involved parties which would make their actions make sense, or make at least as much sense as other proposed ideas.

You see person after person in here infusing the deceased with fears of racist lynching, confusion, fear, etc. but the moment I say "yeah, or maybe he knew cops were on the way and knew these guys were looking out for the neighborhood" and they get zero accusations of lying, but I get tons.

"lies" seems to mean "speculation which makes me uncomfortable and doesn't fit my Saint Ahmaud narrative" and speculation which does fit it is just peachy.
 
Looks like some new night footage and a story about an earlier confrontation he had with the McMichaels:

Suspects in Arbery shooting had earlier neighborhood confrontation - Atlanta Journal Constitution

"GLYNN COUNTY —
Less than two weeks before the Feb. 23 incident that left Ahmaud Arbery fatally shot in a suburb outside Brunswick, the father and son charged in the case had a confrontation with a young black man who had entered a neighboring house under construction, according to a neighbor who helped in the search.

Diego Perez accompanied Gregory McMichael, 64, and his son Travis McMichael, 34, on the Feb. 11 search and was at the shooting scene immediately after Arbery was shot on Feb. 23. Perez said he recognized Arbery as the man they had confronted earlier.
The McMichaels were arrested by the GBI last week and charged with felony murder and aggravated assault. They have been denied bond.

The Feb. 11 encounter had been prompted by a motion-sensor security camera video in the construction site that had pinged the property owner who was two hours away. The owner, Larry English, texted the video to Perez, who lived near the construction site.
Perez, who has spoken to the GBI, had offered to keep watch, and told English he’d be happy to check on the property any time. English told the AJC that he did not know the McMichaels or provide them with any camera footage. Nothing was taken from his property, he said.

Perez said he was armed when he left his home and walked up Satilla Drive that night. As he walked toward the house under construction, Perez said Travis McMichael drove up from the opposite direction, and stopped his truck.

“Travis saw him in the yard and Travis stopped,” Perez told The Atlanta Journal-Constitution on Tuesday. “He confronted (the man) halfway into the yard. He said (the man) reached for his waistband, and Travis got spooked and went down the road.
“When McMichael returned, his father, Gregory McMichael, was with him and armed, said Perez, who added the elder McMichael had called the Glynn County Police Department.

Perez said he found no evidence of the young man around the house. When police arrived, Perez described the vehicle to police that he believes the young man entered before it drove away. Perez said they recognized the young man who had been in other security camera videos at the construction site in the months before.
“All we knew about him was that he was the guy who kept showing up on our cameras,” Perez said. “No one knew who it was.

”Perez said he saw the man again on Feb. 23, this time motionless. Arbery lay dead on the pavement."
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sir drinks-a-lot said:
There's one in ST's post above.
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Yeah and a direct confrontation with neighbors earlier the same month he died, at night, completely blows out of the water any narratives of "oh he thought they were fiendish rogues, racist lynchers, highway bandits, serial killers! He didn't know! He had to assume the worst and start charging and swinging and grabbing at shotguns! It was his one shot at getting out of the situation alive, and tragically... he failed :("

Nope. BS all along, and now confirmed as such.

He knew exactly what the dynamic was. Knew he was caught sneaking in there yet again (the frequency with which he went into this place is comical btw, how did this doofus not realize this would eventually catch up with him?) by the neighborhood guys who had already confronted him before, and knew they were agents of getting in trouble - NOT getting murdered / lynched / robbed / tied up and sold into slavery.

Which makes his violent outburst pretty well indefensible. His refusal to face the consequences has landed him in the grave, his family in mourning, and a couple of guys who were trying to look out for the safety and security of their neighborhood - in the ultimate hot seat and possibly prison for a long time.

What a total POS this guy was.
 
Skeptic Tank said:
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Which makes his violent outburst pretty well indefensible. His refusal to face the consequences has landed him in the grave, his family in mourning, and a couple of guys who were trying to look out for the safety and security of their neighborhood - in the ultimate hot seat and possibly prison for a long time.

What a total POS this guy was.
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Okay, alternative scenario: The McMichaels stop him at gunpoint and say "Wait for the cops," and he does, probably forced to his knees. The cops arrive. Arbery didn't steal anything and he has no weapons or any suspicious property with him. The McMichaels, who don't own the house and are not the owner's agents, confess that they chased Arbery down, threatened his life and prevented him from leaving. Who does an honest cop arrest?
 
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