The all-new "US Politics and coronavirus" thread

[carlitos]

Seems like the cameras were still on since there's video of it. Journalists know full well that the pool camera may still be getting used for a live shot as studio commentary begins.

What briefing was this? That does not look like the White House/West Wing logo on the podium.

The video - It's not the white house; it's NBC5 in Chicago after a briefing at Chicago City Hall. I hear them talking about how Mayor Lightfoot discussed Lollapalooza.

Who are the two people in question? How do you know they are reporters and not staffers?

The cropped photo - They're not reporters. Look at the suits.

 

[Emily's Cat]

I don’t understand why this keeps being presented as a counterpoint when no one has actually suggested do so.

Well, when you single it out as the only line to nit-pick from a more comprehensive post, it sure does seem like it's silly, doesn't it?

It's... it's almost like if you read it in context with everything around it, it paints a different picture! Amazing!

There's going to have to be some middle ground. We can't just go back to pre-covid behaviors altogether and start having mega concerts. But we also can't stay locked down for months and months. I am inclined to think that the CDC guidelines for reopening are a reasonable compromise. And I don't have any objection to states following those guidelines.

 

[Emily's Cat]

I presume you're posting this for political reasons -- it's certainly the right thread!

It's a reasonable supposition, but not really accurate. I'm posting it because I'm tired of the politicization of the topic. I think Ducey's approach is reasonable on the whole, and I think he's been very pragmatic about the whole situation. I think he acted appropriately with the initial steps, and I think that a slow re-opening following the CDC guidelines is fine.

The CDC guidelines provide this as an "or" - Reducing number of cases OR reducing percentage of positive cases, both provided testing has not reduced. AZ doesn't meet the first one, but it does meet the second, and given that testing has increased by more than 3X, the reduction from 11% positive rate to 5% positive rate last week seems like a meaningful statistic to me.

 

[carlitos]

(ETA - re: But we also can't stay locked down for months and months)

It's not even inaccurate. LA and Chicago are locked down for months, as is New York.

 

[johnny karate]

Well, when you single it out as the only line to nit-pick from a more comprehensive post, it sure does seem like it's silly, doesn't it?

It's... it's almost like if you read it in context with everything around it, it paints a different picture! Amazing!

I read your entire post and provided the link for anyone interested in the full context.

And I still think it’s an irrelevant point to make.

The “middle ground” of which you speak is not between opening everything now and staying locked down indefinitely, because staying locked down indefinitely is not on the table.

On one side of this debate are people who want to re-open the country safely and responsibly in line with what scientific data tells us.

On the other side are conservatives.

 

[Emily's Cat]

The “middle ground” of which you speak is not between opening everything now and staying locked down indefinitely, because staying locked down indefinitely is not on the table.

The middle ground I spoke of is following the CDC guidelines.

 

[carlitos]

months and months ≠ indefinitely

 

[johnny karate]

The middle ground I spoke of is following the CDC guidelines.

For that to be the middle ground, someone would have to be suggesting more stringent measures. No one is.

So following CDC guidelines isn’t the middle ground.

It’s what one side of the debate is suggesting.

 

[carlitos]

Who is suggesting "indefinitely?"

 

[johnny karate]

months and months ≠ indefinitely

months and months ≠ two months

 

[Safe-Keeper]

ETA: reminder to most of us stop going for the reactionary response, stop getting distracted by the emotive language. This is precisely how an abuser can get you to damage your own credibility in the eyes of third-party observers.

That, and the whataboutisms. "Oh, er, uhm, quick! Look over there! Two random squirrels, I mean reporters, took their masks off!!! And I called them clowns, u mad ?"

It's like being back in school and the class clown shouted out something silly or childish to get attention or disrupt during a classroom discussion. Either ignore them, or press them to answer the original question they were asked, but don't address them as if they were making a serious argument.

 

[johnny karate]

Who is suggesting "indefinitely?"

“Months and months” is a vague term that implies an unspecified but long period of time.

In other words, indefinitely.

 

[newyorkguy]

...The CDC guidelines provide this as an "or" - Reducing number of cases OR reducing percentage of positive cases, both provided testing has not reduced. AZ doesn't meet the first one, but it does meet the second, and given that testing has increased by more than 3X, the reduction from 11% positive rate to 5% positive rate last week seems like a meaningful statistic to me.

Again you're making a reference without providing a quote or link. This is from a local Arizona news source, the Verde News:

Arizona has seen a steady decline in the percentage ratio of positive COVID-19 cases since the state began its weekend “blitz testing.” Monday morning, the Arizona Department of Health Services reported 12,502 tests were processed Sunday with 261 of those coming back positive. That new data lowered the state’s overall percentage of positive tests to 6.7% (11,380 positives from 150,241 tests). Link

As for the CDC guidelines, apparently president trump doesn't agree. This was the latest I found and it's from last Thursday. Have things changed?

As President Trump rushes to reopen the economy, a battle has erupted between the White House and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention over the agency’s detailed guidelines to help schools, restaurants, churches and other establishments safely reopen.

A copy of the C.D.C. guidance obtained by The New York Times includes sections for child care programs, schools and day camps, churches and other “communities of faith,” employers with vulnerable workers, restaurants and bars, and mass transit administrators. The recommendations include using disposable dishes and utensils at restaurants, closing every other row of seats in buses and subways while restricting transit routes among areas experiencing different levels of coronavirus infection, and separating children at school and camps into groups that should not mix throughout the day. Link

 

[carlitos]

months and months ≠ two months

The three biggest cities in the country started lockdowns in mid-March.

• LA lockdown has been extended to July. They floated August and people freaked out.
• NYC - any end in sight?
• Illinois isn't going to peak until mid-June. So minimum July to hit a 14-day decline.

That's 3 1/2 to 4 months. Your "indefinitely" strawman is your own invention.

 

[Delphic Oracle]

The video - It's not the white house; it's NBC5 in Chicago after a briefing at Chicago City Hall. I hear them talking about how Mayor Lightfoot discussed Lollapalooza.



The cropped photo - They're not reporters. Look at the suits.

I know that.

You know that.

Bubba didn't bother to question any of it.

 

[phiwum]

AZ's governor is in the middle of a press conference where they pulled essentially that. What he says is "if the percentage of positive tests is going down you can move to phase I of reopening."

The number of new cases per day is not going down, and certainly not for the last 14 days. But with the government's "testing blitz" over the last several weekends, the percentage of positive tests HAS gone down. Seems manipulative to me.

But it is in keeping with the guidelines for reopening.

Either a decrease in the absolute number of new cases or a decrease in the percentage of positive tests (both over a two week period) are sufficient conditions for reopening (well, given two other conditions on the side, I think).

 

[newyorkguy]

Here are the White House guidelines.

• Downward trajectory of documented cases within a 14-day period
• Downward trajectory of positive tests as a percent of total tests within a 14-day period (flat or increasing volume of tests)

Opens in PDF

It doesn't say either or. Possibly this is what some state leaders have criticized as "vagueness."

CDC guidelines for opening states seem hard to find. I wish someone would link them. I keep finding news articles like this one from AP:

The Trump administration shelved a document created by the nation’s top disease investigators with step-by-step advice to local authorities on how and when to reopen restaurants and other public places during the still-raging coronavirus outbreak. The 17-page report by a Centers for Disease Control and Prevention team, titled “Guidance for Implementing the Opening Up America Again Framework,” was researched and written to help faith leaders, business owners, educators and state and local officials as they begin to reopen.

It was supposed to be published last Friday, but agency scientists were told the guidance “would never see the light of day,” according to a CDC official. The official was not authorized to talk to reporters and spoke to The Associated Press on the condition of anonymity. Link

 

[Meadmaker]

The White House Tweets

@WhiteHouse
President @realDonaldTrump has launched Operation Warp Speed: an historic push to bring Coronavirus vaccines, therapeutics, and diagnostics to the American people in record time.

Well it's about damned time. What took you so long?

Seriously, this moron is bragging that after two months of quarantine he's saying, "Maybe we should do something about this."

Now if only viruses were susceptible to marketing hype, the problem would be solved. With a name like "Operation Warp Speed", those viruses ought to wither and die by Monday at the latest.


So, Donny, please, please, tell us what you are actually doing? What does "Operation Warp Speed" actually mean? Or have you gotten that far yet?

 

[thaiboxerken]

Maybe he just watched an episode of Star Trek

 

[Sideroxylon]

Yeah, this is normal:

Lou Dobbs poll asks if Trump’s response to coronavirus has been “superb,” “great” or “very good”
https://www.mediamatters.org/lou-do...oronavirus-has-been-superb-great-or-very-good