The all-new "US Politics and coronavirus" thread

[Aridas]

Yes, the actual lowest for which there is a figure is Ethiopia with 0.04 deaths per million. But that's a ******** country so doesn't count.

Mmm. I'm doubtful about the accuracy of any African numbers, honestly. Still, that's a matter of the supply of relevant resources like available tests and test processing more than anything else.

Meanwhile, McConnell seeks to slip a new rule into the renewal of the FISA court system that lets the FBI search through anyone's net browsing history. Only the Progressives and the Libertarian conservatives seem to have noticed.

No worries. Right-wingers will continue to try to claim that the long-term Republican push towards tyranny and police state is actually all the Democrat's doing and that voting against Democrats is all that's preventing tyranny.

******* projection.

 

[Giordano]

wrongo

He walked out because he is simply fed up and disgusted with the lying clowns game playing.

I usually think someone is pulling my leg when they post something like this. But somehow I suspect you believe it.

Trump would have a serious problem walking away from lying clowns; just like walking away from one’s own shadow.

 

[Cheetah]

Don't y'all get sarcasm?


Bubba "is simply fed up and disgusted with the lying clown's game playing", as are all of us.

 

[Delphic Oracle]

Settting aside the "clowns" descriptor (character attack) and "game playing" (minimization) portions:

What lies?

In the specific instance of the questions asked, what false data was asserted?

ETA: reminder to most of us stop going for the reactionary response, stop getting distracted by the emotive language. This is precisely how an abuser can get you to damage your own credibility in the eyes of third-party observers.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Mmm. I'm doubtful about the accuracy of any African numbers, honestly. Still, that's a matter of the supply of relevant resources like available tests and test processing more than anything else.

Sure. I'm not claiming that Ethiopia has the lowest per capita death rate in reality, I'm just adding to the pointing out that Trump's claims are ********.

 

[Segnosaur]

Meanwhile, McConnell seeks to slip a new rule into the renewal of the FISA court system that lets the FBI search through anyone's net browsing history. Only the Progressives and the Libertarian conservatives seem to have noticed.

And keep in mind that at the same time Moscow Mitch is trying to expand FBI powers, he is also supporting Stubby Mcbonespurs, who is claiming the FBI is somehow out of control/untrustworthy/etc.


Sent from my LM-X320 using Tapatalk

 

[newyorkguy]

Google charts are presented showing that in states that are relaxing restrictions the guidelines -- fourteen days with new cases trending downward -- are not being met. A frequent comment is, more testing means more new cases uncovered. Yet some of the charts don't show that. In the case of Georgia [see below; click to enlarge] new cases seem to have plateaued. They're not trending downward but they're not trending upward either. I cite Georgia because they have said that as of about April 29th they are doing more testing, testing about 11,000 people a day. Yet if you look at the chart, new cases in mid-April (before they increased testing) are at about the same level as new cases in May (when they increased testing). On the chart, New York is on the right. New York has also increased testing but new cases are very clearly trending down. More testing has not meant more new cases.

The number of positive cases does not seem to rise in step with the number of tests. However, it does mean the percentage of people who test positive would decrease as more testing is done. As wareyin pointed out, at least in Georgia, the state is using that number -- a decreasing rate of positives -- to justify relaxing restrictions. In other words, Georgia wants to reopen the economy but can't meet the 14-day decreasing number of cases criteria. Instead, they're apparently using the decreasing percentage of positive cases as they ramp up testing.

 

[newyorkguy]

...The number of positive cases does not seem to rise in step with the number of tests. However, it does mean the percentage of people who test positive would decrease as more testing is done. As wareyin pointed out, at least in Georgia, the state is using that number -- a decreasing rate of positives -- to justify relaxing restrictions. In other words, Georgia wants to reopen the economy but can't meet the 14-day decreasing number of cases criteria. Instead, they're apparently using the decreasing percentage of positive cases as they ramp up testing.

There's a problem with justifying a relaxation of restrictions based on more testing producing a lower percentage of positives, as health officials -- including Dr. Fauci -- have warned. The virus is still out there and it's highly contagious. If you increase interactions between people you are probably going to have an increase in infections. One of the biggest dangers in increasing social interactions is the many asymptomatic people out there. They are contagious but because they are symptom free they don't suspect they may be a carrier.

 

[carlitos]

There's a problem with not having the detailed guidelines from the CDC: The governor can fudge the numbers using percent instead of absolute cases. This was mentioned in the hearings yesterday, the lack of specifics on the guidelines.

 

[slyjoe]

Google charts are presented showing that in states that are relaxing restrictions the guidelines -- fourteen days with new cases trending downward -- are not being met. A frequent comment is, more testing means more new cases uncovered. Yet some of the charts don't show that. In the case of Georgia [see below; click to enlarge] new cases seem to have plateaued. They're not trending downward but they're not trending upward either. I cite Georgia because they have said that as of about April 29th they are doing more testing, testing about 11,000 people a day. Yet if you look at the chart, new cases in mid-April (before they increased testing) are at about the same level as new cases in May (when they increased testing). On the chart, New York is on the right. New York has also increased testing but new cases are very clearly trending down. More testing has not meant more new cases.

The number of positive cases does not seem to rise in step with the number of tests. However, it does mean the percentage of people who test positive would decrease as more testing is done. As wareyin pointed out, at least in Georgia, the state is using that number -- a decreasing rate of positives -- to justify relaxing restrictions. In other words, Georgia wants to reopen the economy but can't meet the 14-day decreasing number of cases criteria. Instead, they're apparently using the decreasing percentage of positive cases as they ramp up testing.

Exactly what Arizona is doing as well.

 

[Emily's Cat]

AZ's governor is in the middle of a press conference where they pulled essentially that. What he says is "if the percentage of positive tests is going down you can move to phase I of reopening."

The number of new cases per day is not going down, and certainly not for the last 14 days. But with the government's "testing blitz" over the last several weekends, the percentage of positive tests HAS gone down. Seems manipulative to me.

Have you looked at the AZDOHS site? The percentage of positive PCR tests has been declining since early April, and the percentage of positive serology tests since mid April. Deaths per day have been declining since mid April, and hospitalizations since early April. IP and ICU beds still have 20% available, and there's still 70% capacity for ventilators.

You can think it's manipulative, sure, but AZ has been pretty transparent about their data. Coronavirus certainly hasn't been eradicated, and there's still plenty of risk. There are also still many restrictions in place, re-opening businesses are required to comply with the federal guidelines for worker and customer safety, and Ducey is recommending that people who can work from home continue to do so, and continue to limit their exposure as much as possible.

There's going to have to be some middle ground. We can't just go back to pre-covid behaviors altogether and start having mega concerts. But we also can't stay locked down for months and months. I am inclined to think that the CDC guidelines for reopening are a reasonable compromise. And I don't have any objection to states following those guidelines.

 

[Mojo]

He walked out because he is simply fed up and disgusted with the lying clowns game playing.

How can he stand to be in a room with himself?

 

[Andy_Ross]

The White House Tweets

@WhiteHouse
President @realDonaldTrump has launched Operation Warp Speed: an historic push to bring Coronavirus vaccines, therapeutics, and diagnostics to the American people in record time.

 

[Segnosaur]

Can't remember seeing this...

Remember Hydroxychloroquine? Yeah, it has been a while since we've heard Trump push it as some sort of miracle treatment. But since previous tests have shown it to be less than effective, he's been pretty silent on it. But its always good to remember some of the dumb things Trump has done.

From: CNN
A new study -- the largest of its kind -- shows that hydroxychloroquine, the drug touted by President Trump, does not work against Covid-19 and could cause heart problems....the death rate for patients taking hydroxychloroquine was similar to those who did not take the drug. The death rate for those taking hydroxychloroquine plus the antibiotic azithromycin, was also similar. However, the patients who took the drug combination were more than twice as likely to suffer cardiac arrest...

 

[Segnosaur]

The White House Tweets

@WhiteHouse
President @realDonaldTrump has launched Operation Warp Speed: an historic push to bring Coronavirus vaccines, therapeutics, and diagnostics to the American people in record time.

So, what exactly was the Trump administration doing before? Are they admitting they were dragging their feet on the development of vaccines and treatments?

 

[Crossbow]

The White House Tweets

@WhiteHouse
President @realDonaldTrump has launched Operation Warp Speed: an historic push to bring Coronavirus vaccines, therapeutics, and diagnostics to the American people in record time.

Considering that Trump is in charge, it is probably more like 'Operation Ludicrous Speed'.

 

[johnny karate]

But we also can't stay locked down for months and months.

I don’t understand why this keeps being presented as a counterpoint when no one has actually suggested doing so.

 

[slyjoe]

Have you looked at the AZDOHS site? The percentage of positive PCR tests has been declining since early April, and the percentage of positive serology tests since mid April. Deaths per day have been declining since mid April, and hospitalizations since early April. IP and ICU beds still have 20% available, and there's still 70% capacity for ventilators.

You can think it's manipulative, sure, but AZ has been pretty transparent about their data. Coronavirus certainly hasn't been eradicated, and there's still plenty of risk. There are also still many restrictions in place, re-opening businesses are required to comply with the federal guidelines for worker and customer safety, and Ducey is recommending that people who can work from home continue to do so, and continue to limit their exposure as much as possible.

There's going to have to be some middle ground. We can't just go back to pre-covid behaviors altogether and start having mega concerts. But we also can't stay locked down for months and months. I am inclined to think that the CDC guidelines for reopening are a reasonable compromise. And I don't have any objection to states following those guidelines.

Ducey, in one press conference, said he doesn't know where the peak is and then said we are way past the peak.

The restrictions are pretty meaningless. When asked who enforces the guidelines, Ducey couldn't answer.

Right up until the last week or two, I thought Ducy was doing a good job. Now I'm not so sure.

I agree there are tradeoffs. It is hard to see where most states are making those tradeoffs because the numbers don't support opening. I would like to see nursing home cases as well, but Ducey refuses to release them. Why is that? There is no HIPAA or state rule that would be violated.

 

[newyorkguy]

Have you looked at the AZDOHS site?...Deaths per day have been declining since mid April

I have been looking at the AZDHS dashboard. The numbers are not that great. New cases and deaths posted below. Neither seem to be declining. Link I presume you're posting this for political reasons -- it's certainly the right thread! --but I think we'd all appreciate links or screen caps to back up what you write. For instance, earlier you wrote

Case rates in Maricopa County (where Phoenix is, along with over 60% of the population of the state) have slowed...

That appears to be inaccurate or misleading. I posted a chart from the Maricopa County Health Department that same day -- I looked because the way you are characterizing this does not at all match what I'm seeing. Below is Maricopa's current chart. Rates 'may' have slowed in Maricopa but it is written right on the top of the County chart that the number of new cases "is steadily increasing." Link

 

[Delphic Oracle]

The White House Tweets

@WhiteHouse
President @realDonaldTrump has launched Operation Warp Speed: an historic push to bring Coronavirus vaccines, therapeutics, and diagnostics to the American people in record time.

I'm on calendar day 6 of waiting for test results.

I've just been told it may take 7-9 because *reasons*.

Business days.

7-9 business days.

People could theoretically be well into rigor mortis by the time their results come back.