The all-new "US Politics and coronavirus" thread

[Giordano]

Mobilize the resources available to produce tests, protective equipment, and workplace or public area safety measures to slow the spread of the virus.

Instead, he sent checks to every American. Awesome. Borrowed money doesn't keep the virus from spreading.


In a different thread I said the government should have hired people to deliver groceries. In reality would that have been a great idea? This is where project managers earn their pay. What does it take to get that from idea to program? Could it have been done? I don't know, but yes, I honestly believe that would have been a good use of government money. It employs people while simultaneously slowing the spread of the virus.

But, maybe that wasn't the best way. Again, that's what project managers are for, to figure out which, out of all the possible things to do, are actually the ones that can be done, and then do them.

Why do I not have an N95 mask? Would it have been impossible, with the resources available to the United States, to make five of them for every single American, with 20 times more than that for health care workers, over the last two months? That's about 2 billion masks. Could it have been done? I don't know, but somebody ought to, and I don't think Trump did.

In this thread, I think, there was mention of an Apollo level effort. A truly massive and very expensive undertaking to create PPE and tests. Why didn't it happen? He could give away two trillion dollars, but he couldn't make 2 billion masks? What's up with that? That's 1,000 dollars a mask. Surely it would have been a massive undertaking. Good thing there's 30 million Americans available to work on it.

I guess it's not his job......but, wait, whose is it?

Yes. Further, we didn’t and don’t have to puzzle this out ourselves. Examples of how to do this right exist in multiple countries! Examples of how not to do it are also available, sadly. We appear to be following the latter...

The absolutely unbelievable, continuing incompetence on the part of the Trump administration is murderous.

I would add some easy policies the Trump administration can implement for free: set a good example (eg wear masks when appropriate). Encourage people to follow the advice of public health experts. Stop undercutting your own recommendations and those of the governors. Stop releasing contrary statements every few hours to stop confusing people and undermining their trust in the accuracy of what you say. Stop actively dividing the country and turning Americans against one another. Stop making the response to a deadly disease a political test.

 

[Giordano]

Virtually everything Trump has done has been the opposite of what a proper leader should have done. We clearly would be better off if he did nothing at all and left the response in the hands of public health officials.

 

[Trebuchet]

Virtually everything Trump has done has been the opposite of what a proper leader should have done. We clearly would be better off if he did nothing at all and left the response in the hands of public health officials.

Trump has never been a leader, just a boss. There's a difference.

 

[Giordano]

Meanwhile, demoted scientist’s whistle blower complaint is found to have sufficient merit to move to have him reinstated while investigation moves to next level:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/federal-watchdog-finds-reasonable-grounds-203713595.html

 

[Matthew Best]

Could have been as simple as there were some empty boxes in the truck for other reasons.

I think this story was a dud. Wonder if Kimmel will apologize. Someone let me know, I don't watch his show.

There is so much crap between Pence and Trump. The photo-op itself was ludicrous. No need to enhance the outrage.

He did apologise! He tweeted this:


it would appear that @vp was joking about carrying empty boxes for a staged publicity stunt. The full video reveals that he was carrying full boxes for a staged publicity stunt. My apologies. I know how dearly this administration values truth.

 

[Lurch]

Why do you think was his job in this context?

Even *after* editing, this is what you present.

 

[Lurch]

Mobilize the resources available to produce tests, protective equipment, and workplace or public area safety measures to slow the spread of the virus.

Instead, he sent checks to every American. Awesome. Borrowed money doesn't keep the virus from spreading.


In a different thread I said the government should have hired people to deliver groceries. In reality would that have been a great idea? This is where project managers earn their pay. What does it take to get that from idea to program? Could it have been done? I don't know, but yes, I honestly believe that would have been a good use of government money. It employs people while simultaneously slowing the spread of the virus.

But, maybe that wasn't the best way. Again, that's what project managers are for, to figure out which, out of all the possible things to do, are actually the ones that can be done, and then do them.

Why do I not have an N95 mask? Would it have been impossible, with the resources available to the United States, to make five of them for every single American, with 20 times more than that for health care workers, over the last two months? That's about 2 billion masks. Could it have been done? I don't know, but somebody ought to, and I don't think Trump did.

In this thread, I think, there was mention of an Apollo level effort. A truly massive and very expensive undertaking to create PPE and tests. Why didn't it happen? He could give away two trillion dollars, but he couldn't make 2 billion masks? What's up with that? That's 1,000 dollars a mask. Surely it would have been a massive undertaking. Good thing there's 30 million Americans available to work on it.

I guess it's not his job......but, wait, whose is it?

One of your better posts!

 

[quadraginta]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/07/politics/trump-valet-tests-positive-covid-19/index.html

Sorry about the valet but this could be such a great thing for the nation. The disgusting offense against nature that is Trump's carcass is riddled with COVID 19 risk factors. I don't want to get my hopes up here but I so wish he gets it.

As you say, sorry about the valet but ..you know, Collateral damage and all that.

I can't think of a place I'd rather see a Covid-19 hotspot than the White House. Yes, some of the lowest echelon employees may be innocents, but most of them are there because they want to be, and that means they want to help Trump.

Number two might be wherever the Senate Republicans hang out, but they spend more time actually out in public, so they'd be endangering more innocents.

 

[quadraginta]

Given how little Trump gives a **** about other people getting the virus, 'must get the economy going', that is pitiful, absolutely pitiful.

Please let this be the the Masque of the Red Death arriving in the black room. Even if he only gets as sick as Boris and doesn't die. They can give him the meds he's been touting, the ones that don't do anything.

<snip>

Or better yet, the ones he's been touting that actually increase the chances of a fatal outcome.

 

[quadraginta]

Can I be the only one to be kind of disgusted to learn that active duty US military personnel are acting as valets to ANY President?

Apparently it's been a tradition for well over a century, going back to the Hayes Administration.

Here's a .pdf of a letter from the GAO composed as a response to an inquiry in 1974 by that hero of American values, Sen. William Proxmire.

Lots of info there.

 

[Parsman]

Why do you think was his job in this context?

There is a reason why countries like South Korea are coping much better with Covid than the USA. They aren't led by a narcissist whose only worry is about the politics rather than the science of the pandemic, and do go around suggesting "sarcastically" that people should be injected with bleach and seriously suggesting closing down the government body dealing with the crisis while the USA is still in the middle of it. All the while supported by know nothing place men who owe their power to patronage and not to intelligence or ability. That is why Trump isn't doing the job expected of an American President.

 

[carlitos]

Apparently it's been a tradition for well over a century, going back to the Hayes Administration.

I learned about this from Tom Clancy novels, where Jack Ryan gets his excellent coffee from the Navy Steward.

I don't have any problem with members of the military waiting on the president. There are lots of jobs in the military; it's not all guns and shooting and stuff.

 

[Mader Levap]

Trump has never been a leader, just a boss. There's a difference.

Nope. He is not leader and not boss. Picture below explains difference.

Why do you think was his job in this context?

Your tribe screwed up COVID-19 handling and deserves loss in November for that alone. Get over it.

 

[varwoche]

Was posting in response to this exchange:


The second poster spent a lot of time saying the flu was much much worse than C-19 and was very vocal about Trump's "ignorance" in stopping travel from China.

So I think it's reasonable to ask what she thinks Trump should have done.

Bear in mind, nobody here was getting the daily security briefings.

Next time, they must prepare the briefing to communicate more effectively. Put a meaner face on the virus cartoon graphic.
.

 

[Horatius]

Was posting in response to this exchange:





The second poster spent a lot of time saying the flu was much much worse than C-19 and was very vocal about Trump's "ignorance" in stopping travel from China.

So I think it's reasonable to ask what she thinks Trump should have done.

Okay, so you misspelled "What". But then you just ignored literally weeks worth of messages that have explained, in detail, exactly what Trump should have done in response to this crisis, so that you can keep defending the indefensible.

I stand by my assessment of your character.

 

[newyorkguy]

The models that Arizona is relying on say that fatalities will rise, but since governor Ducey is re-opening the state, so has shut the modelling team down

This is an interesting article. By the way, no where in the article does it state Governor Doug Ducey "ignored science" as was claimed. It does report:

The Arizona Department of Health Services (ADHS) relied on a modeling team of 23 researchers at Arizona State University and the University of Arizona, which predicted that the state would reach its peak in cases in late May or early June. But Ducey, a Republican, moved ahead with plans to reopen restaurants and beauty salons anyway, arguing that the state was "headed in the right direction" Monday as he cited a "downward trajectory." Ducey originally extended his stay-at-home order until May 15 but changed his mind and announced Monday that certain business could reopen even sooner.

This is from a Fox News Phoenix report:

During Monday's news conference, Gov. Ducey said Arizona is "headed in the right direction" in terms of the pandemic, with a downward trajectory of flu and COVID-like illnesses, as well as a downward trajectory of positive COVID-19 tests and expanded testing availability. Link

I don't see a downward trajectory.

 

[slyjoe]

Why do you think was his job in this context?

Well, in the first hour or so he should have looked at what other administrations did when faced with a pandemic.

 

[phiwum]

Is there any evidence Pence has a sense of humor? I haven't followed his doings and sayings closely because he creeps me out, but he doesn't strike me as making jokes. Also I heard if he gets a cut it takes up to twelve minutes for blood to show up.

It's possible that he put his sense of humor in the same deep, dark hole containing his conscience and dignity. He's a seriously creepy minion. Like the Martin Landau character (Leonard) from North by Northwest.

 

[Bob001]

....
So I think it's reasonable to ask what she thinks Trump should have done.

Well, he could have started here:

The Trump administration, state officials and even individual hospital workers are now racing against each other to get the necessary masks, gloves and other safety equipment to fight coronavirus — a scramble that hospitals and doctors say has come too late and left them at risk. But according to a previously unrevealed White House playbook, the government should’ve begun a federal-wide effort to procure that personal protective equipment at least two months ago.

“Is there sufficient personal protective equipment for healthcare workers who are providing medical care?” the playbook instructs its readers, as one early decision that officials should address when facing a potential pandemic. “If YES: What are the triggers to signal exhaustion of supplies? Are additional supplies available? If NO: Should the Strategic National Stockpile release PPE to states?”

The strategies are among hundreds of tactics and key policy decisions laid out in a 69-page National Security Council playbook on fighting pandemics, which POLITICO is detailing for the first time. Other recommendations include that the government move swiftly to fully detect potential outbreaks, secure supplemental funding and consider invoking the Defense Production Act — all steps in which the Trump administration lagged behind the timeline laid out in the playbook.

“Each section of this playbook includes specific questions that should be asked and decisions that should be made at multiple levels” within the national security apparatus, the playbook urges, repeatedly advising officials to question the numbers on viral spread, ensure appropriate diagnostic capacity and check on the U.S. stockpile of emergency resources.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/25/trump-coronavirus-national-security-council-149285

Or here:

U.S. intelligence agencies issued warnings about the novel coronavirus in more than a dozen classified briefings prepared for President Trump in January and February, months during which he continued to play down the threat, according to current and former U.S. officials.

The repeated warnings were conveyed in issues of the President’s Daily Brief, a sensitive report that is produced before dawn each day and designed to call the president’s attention to the most significant global developments and security threat

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...66949a-8885-11ea-ac8a-fe9b8088e101_story.html

The point is that Trump rejected the previous administration's detailed warnings about the dangers of a pandemic and the response it would require, and then he rejected the warnings of his own intelligence officials when they tried to wake him up. What he could have done, among many other things, is impose travel restrictions from China and Europe earlier, start stockpiling emergency supplies earlier, adopt the WHO covid test instead of waiting for the CDC to develop one that didn't work, and encourage "social distancing" and mask-wearing earlier.

Trump gave up two months or more, claiming the virus would "just disappear," and now the death count approaches 80,000.

 

[phiwum]

Travel from China: I approved of the ban on travel from China. HOWEVER, it wasn't a ban as he claims. The 40K that came through were not all US citizens. If you'd bothered to look, there were more holes in who could come in than Swiss cheese. And those who came through did so with lousy, if any, testing to see if they were infected. He DID allow Chinese nationals to come in. Like I said, look at the his order.

What exactly is 'inaccurate' in my post? Go on...give me specifics.

I have to say that when he restricted travel from Europe, I thought it was just a dramatic play to feed his ego. I was mistaken about that and now think that it should have been done earlier.

To be sure, the WHO says that such travel restrictions are ineffective and so I could be wrong now just as I think I was wrong then.