Biden for President?

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And my, aren't we all just shocked, shocked I tell you, to find out that creepy uncle Joe has been accused of going too far. So, while this may be the only accusation of sexual assault, let's not pretend like he doesn't have a history of violating the personal space of women. This was all known, this was all predictable. I'm sorry, I meant electable.

We've hit a rough spot on the turd being polished. Which would be better: to scrub harder in the hopes of getting it shiny, or just skip that bit and turn the bad side away from the camera? Perhaps if Biden had taken his own runs for the presidency seriously over the thirty-two years he's been making them he could have done something about this before.
 
Sure, eventually Biden will have to come out of hiding.

Biden's campaign strategy, even before the Reade allegation, has seemed to have been to keep him out of the public eye as much as possible.

I could see them just ignoring this problem until confronted with it in the first debate, which would be a disaster.

I agree that it would be a disaster to wait that long. But he may just take that road.

Concerning your edit, I think it would benefit Trump to talk about it. Trump's lecherous and rapey ways are already priced in. His voters already decided they don't care in 2016. It's old news for Trump, but not so for Biden.

1. Sorry for the edit. I try not to do that too much.

2. Yeah, but I think a lot of Trump voters don't actually believe the allegations against him. There was a flare up on Twitter recently that Stormy had retracted her allegations because Trump supporters on twitter were dredging up an article from when she was complying with their agreement. They are really that blinded. Bringing it back up and making people around Trump deal with it does hurt him.

It's going to be a full court press on Biden with the fail-son nepotism and the sexual assault allegation. Trump benefits a lot to smear the Democratic candidate as a hypocritical, corrupt monster.

Democratic voters take these things more seriously and will be much more demoralized by this. This kind of thing really takes the winds out of the "return to decency" sails.

That's the thing, all the worst personal qualities of Trump can now be found in the Biden story. Fail-son nepotism, sexual assault allegations, known to make women uncomfortable. So, you are left with arguing policy, which never really wins elections.

My vote goes to the person I would most like to pick RGB's replacement. But that is not going to really get much more than my vote.
 
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My vote goes to the person I would most like to pick RGB's replacement. But that is not going to really get much more than my vote.

A lot of people are going to be holding their nose to try to protect that SCOTUS seat, and you can't blame the reasoning. It's pretty striking, because there was no shortage of Republicans doing the same thing when they pulled the lever for Trump. A bizarro version though, where the status quo candidate, having successful defeated the rabble-rousing insurgent, turns out to be the repulsive choice.

SCOTUS really is the last defense of ****** candidates. Since we live in a fallen world, my prediction is that RGB kicks the bucket during the general and the Republicans, with the help of a few conservative Dems, ram through a conservative justice, making this key issue a moot point and dooming the judiciary for a generation.

man I love how electable Joe is.

You know, if Biden blows this one, you can guarantee that party elites will refuse to learn their lesson for the second time. They'll blame MeToo people, or Russia, or Bernie, or anyone. Nobody could have known in advance Joe was a dud...
 
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A lot of people are going to be holding their nose to try to protect that SCOTUS seat, and you can't blame the reasoning. It's pretty striking, because there was no shortage of Republicans doing the same thing when they pulled the lever for Trump. A bizarro version though, where the status quo candidate, having successful defeated the rabble-rousing insurgent, turns out to be the repulsive choice.

SCOTUS really is the last defense of ****** candidates. Since we live in a fallen world, my prediction is that RGB kicks the bucket during the general and the Republicans, with the help of a few conservative Dems, ram through a conservative justice.

Even as we fight a global pandemic, that is my worst nightmare for the year 2020.

man I love how electable Joe is.

You know, if Biden blows this one, you can guarantee that party elites will refuse to learn their lesson for the second time. They'll blame MeToo people, or Russia, or Bernie, or anyone. Nobody could have known in advance Joe was a dud...

But Warren beloved her parent's stories about being Native American. And Bernie liked Castro's literacy programs. And . . . I can't really remember the rest of them, frankly.

This party sucks. The only thing saving it is that it sucks less than the GOP.
 
A lot of people are going to be holding their nose to try to protect that SCOTUS seat, and you can't blame the reasoning. It's pretty striking, because there was no shortage of Republicans doing the same thing when they pulled the lever for Trump. A bizarro version though, where the status quo candidate, having successful defeated the rabble-rousing insurgent, turns out to be the repulsive choice.

SCOTUS really is the last defense of ****** candidates. Since we live in a fallen world, my prediction is that RGB kicks the bucket during the general and the Republicans, with the help of a few conservative Dems, ram through a conservative justice.

man I love how electable Joe is.

You know, if Biden blows this one, you can guarantee that party elites will refuse to learn their lesson for the second time. They'll blame MeToo people, or Russia, or Bernie, or anyone. Nobody could have known in advance Joe was a dud...
They don't need the help of Dems.

Yeah it's all very 2016'ish. Abysmal finalists again.
 
We've hit a rough spot on the turd being polished. Which would be better: to scrub harder in the hopes of getting it shiny, or just skip that bit and turn the bad side away from the camera? Perhaps if Biden had taken his own runs for the presidency seriously over the thirty-two years he's been making them he could have done something about this before.

The problem is that when he first started you didn't clean up your game to run for president. You ran for president to take your game to the next level.
 
The problem is that when he first started you didn't clean up your game to run for president. You ran for president to take your game to the next level.

Are you suggesting a 77 year old might be somehow stuck in the mindset of the past? Why, such a notion is ridiculous! Lots of septuagenarians are on fleek and getting jiggy with the youths, with their Tick Tocks and Instant Grahams and Nintendo Swatches!
 
We've hit a rough spot on the turd being polished. Which would be better: to scrub harder in the hopes of getting it shiny, or just skip that bit and turn the bad side away from the camera? Perhaps if Biden had taken his own runs for the presidency seriously over the thirty-two years he's been making them he could have done something about this before.

Yeah, let's set aside that unfortunate business and focus on the good things.

Biden considering putting Republicans in cabinet positions, and Larry Summers is whispering in his ear. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-biden/biden-weighs-naming-cabinet-officials-before-election-including-republicans-idUSKBN22B384

Better turn that polisher up to high speed, I still see some rough marks.
 
We've hit a rough spot on the turd being polished. Which would be better: to scrub harder in the hopes of getting it shiny, or just skip that bit and turn the bad side away from the camera? Perhaps if Biden had taken his own runs for the presidency seriously over the thirty-two years he's been making them he could have done something about this before.

Well, he has sealed his Senate records. And I bet if we looked at the chain of custody, we'd find several missing links over the years. It's entirely possible he has done something about this.
 
Well, he has sealed his Senate records. And I bet if we looked at the chain of custody, we'd find several missing links over the years. It's entirely possible he has done something about this.

Which makes him both vile and ineffective! He's certainly (post 2016) presidential material!
 
The problem is that when he first started you didn't clean up your game to run for president. You ran for president to take your game to the next level.

I don't know what this means, but I'm pretty sure that by the time he got started in 1973, the principle of having a clean image to advance in politics was already well established and widely practiced.
 
I have never left a job for a single reason. It was often multiple reasons and the reason I give someone will likely depend a lot on the point I'm trying to make. If I'm talking about how poor leader run off good employees, I'll lean heavy on the flaws of my boss that made me want to leave. If I'm talking about the importance of work/life balance, I'll lean heavy on how that was improved by the departure. If I'm talking about how following the type of work you want to do is important, I'll talk about how I took a risk to do more interesting work. The thing is, all of those are true and none are the full story.

Have you ever quit a job voluntarily, been forced to quit, and fired all at the same time as well? I find it pretty hard to grok all of those things being true for the same instance.



My recollection is that she has not clearly said she was entirely nude under her skirt and her comments could be interpreted to simply mean she wasn't wearing hose. Which would have been "out of dress code" for many offices at that time, but not uncommon. A bit like wearing nice jeans on business casual days at the office.

My recollection was that she said she had nothing on under her skirt. That's not exactly casual dress code now, and I certainly don't believe it was in the 90's in the halls of the Senate.

Do you not think both could have happened within a short span of of time after the event ending? Do you deal with humans who are embarrassed by their own flaws very often? Being both apologetic and aggressively defensive does not seem out of place.

I've never witnessed someone go from groping someone to sneering to comforting like that, no. I've already said it reads a lot more like the plot of a romance novel than how humans interact in the wilds of the office environment.

Yes, humans are complex and relying on tweets to understand them is likely not very revealing.

And my, aren't we all just shocked, shocked I tell you, to find out that creepy uncle Joe has been accused of going too far. So, while this may be the only accusation of sexual assault, let's not pretend like he doesn't have a history of violating the personal space of women. This was all known, this was all predictable. I'm sorry, I meant electable.

Yeah, let's just go with touching a woman's shoulders is naturally going to lead to shoving your finger into her hoohah. They're clearly the same!
 
I don't see whether or not she accurately recalls trivial details of her life is relevant to whether or not she would fabricate a sexual assault allegation.

The two events, moving to DC and being sexually violated, are not exactly of the same significance or memorability.


The issue isn't necessarily deliberate fabrication. She might have come to believe something that isn't true. False memory is a real thing. Her defenders seem to be arguing that some things were too trivial to remember details, and others were too traumatic to remember details. So what memories can be trusted?

And saying "Gee, that far back I just don't remember what I did" is not nearly the same as making multiple conflicting claims about matters of fact.
 
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And from the land of misleading headlines:

Yahoo News: Evidence emerges for sex-assault allegation against Biden

Hint: there is no new 'emerged' information in the article.

It is, however, a decent summary of the story to date.

Creepy Joe touched her shoulders and kissed her hair and made her (and other women over the years) uncomfortable. We know that. And it is/was bizarre behavior. And I have no clue why people on his various campaigns over the years didn't tell him to knock it off years ago no matter how much Joe felt he was only being friendly.

For those in this thread claiming Biden has not personally responded, here is what Biden said earlier:
In March 2019, former Nevada lawmaker Lucy Flores alleged that Biden had kissed and touched her inappropriately in 2014. In response to Flores’s allegation, Biden said it “was never my intention” to make Flores or another woman feel uncomfortable.
So kissed on head or?

“In my many years on the campaign trail and in public life, I have offered countless handshakes, hugs, expressions of affection, support and comfort. And not once — never — did I believe I acted inappropriately,” he said in the statement. “If it is suggested I did so, I will listen respectfully. But it was never my intention.”

He added that he did not recall the alleged interaction with Flores, but said, “We have arrived at an important time when women feel they can and should relate their experiences.”
Well into the 'me too' era, which makes the following not surprising:

Shortly after those allegations were made, a half dozen other women spoke up to say that Biden had made remarks or touched them in ways that made them uncomfortable, although none alleged assault. One was Reade, who told a local California newspaper that Biden had inappropriately touched her and made her uncomfortable. She did not raise an accusation of assault. In 2019 interviews with the Washington Post, Reade said that Biden “touched her neck and shoulders but did not mention the alleged assault or suggest there was more to the story.”
This appears undeniable. And claims of kissing, yeah, the idiot kissed women's heads and hair all the time. If that was a sexual come-on, why was it so commonly in public?

The guy invaded personal space, no question.

As for Reade telling others and her mother's contemporaneous call to Larry King:
Last week, the Intercept published an August 11, 1993, call to Larry King’s CNN show. Although not identified at the time, the caller was Reade’s mother, Jeanette Altimus, who Reade says she told about the alleged assault at the time it occurred.

“I’m wondering what a staffer would do besides go to the press in Washington?” said the caller, who was identified as a woman living in San Luis Obispo, Calif., where Altimus resided at the time. “My daughter has just left there, after working for a prominent senator, and could not get through with her problems at all, and the only thing she could have done was go to the press, and she chose not to do it out of respect for him.”

King replied, “In other words, she had a story to tell but, out of respect for the person she worked for, she didn’t tell it?”

“That’s true,” said the caller.
Other than the word, "assault" in the call, that doesn't say more than 'kissing the head/hair and rubbing shoulders' which he probably did.

One friend recalls
I don’t remember all the details,” added LaCasse, who said she was a Democrat who still supported Biden. “I remember the skirt. I remember the fingers. I remember she was devastated.”
But this woman only repeated this story recently when asked by reporters and after Reade's public account.

Then we have:
Another woman, Lorraine Sanchez, told McHugh that she recalled Reade complaining to her in the mid-’90s that her former boss in Washington, D.C., had sexually harassed her and that she had been fired for raising concerns. Sanchez and Reade worked together in the office of a California state senator.

That's a credible account but could still mostly be Reade's interpretation of events that did not include the finger in the vagina claim.


I'm sorry, this is a single account, about a man who invaded women's spaces and there is no doubt he made some of them uncomfortable.

No one else is saying he tried to kiss (on the mouth) or touch them on their female bits. Decades of public life, decades of campaign and political life and Creepy Joe's only pattern was rubbing shoulders and kissing hair/heads.

If he was slamming women up against the walls and trying to kiss them, there would be more reports, lots of them. There aren't.

False memories that head kissing and shoulder rubbing was sexual, credible. Exaggerating a bit to some people you tell the story too because they might not think head kissing and shoulder rubbing was credibly sexual? Very likely. That's what people do because they want to be believed.

Bernie Bros would love Biden to resign so they can still get their Sanders' revolution. Republicans would love to trash Biden because that's all they have with such an atrocious candidate as Trump. And Democrats are simply not going to buy it because we need to get Trump out of there.

I personally don't believe her. I believe he rubbed her shoulders and kissed her hair and maybe she was creeped out about and that belief grew over time into this claim she now has. I think the evidence he simply didn't have such a pattern of behavior outweighs her likely questionable memory.
That's my belief and I'm sticking to it.


No doubt there is now a concerted effort by the Trump campaign to dig more women up here. The GOP funded Paula Jones' legal case to the tune of ~$600,000 IIRC (It was 6 figure) and she came out with $800,000 in the end. Bill was an easy target. Jones' story was likely mostly true, but due to the large GOP investment to bring out her outrage, I doubt she was outraged by it at the time.

Regardless, it's says a lot about the alt-right that they didn't give a rip about their candidates' behavior but they expect a Democratic candidate to withdraw because of questionable behavior almost 2 decades earlier. No, Joe is not going to be bullied into resigning and Trump can bring all of Clinton's accusers and Reade to sit in the front row at the debates.

Sorry Trumpers, you can only use that tactic once. Your boy has proved himself to be an incompetent, dangerous POTUS. We won't be fooled again. Hopefully.
 
I don't know what this means, but I'm pretty sure that by the time he got started in 1973, the principle of having a clean image to advance in politics was already well established and widely practiced.

But it only had to be clean on the surface. Not really clean. I mean, it still doesn't have to be that clean, apparently.
 
She said she filed the compaint with the Senate Personnel Office. Why wouldn't they have a copy?

Good question. My understanding is that Senate records relating to Senator Biden are sealed. Maybe that's why they don't have a copy. Or maybe they lost it. Or maybe they destroyed it. Or maybe she never filed the complaint in the first place.

Her claiming to have filed a complaint doesn't prove anything. But not being able to produce a copy of the complaint also doesn't prove anything.

That said, if she did file a complaint, I'd expect her to have a least a letter from the SPO, acknowledging receipt of the complaint and giving her a docket number or case number or file number or something.

But my expectation could be wrong. Maybe the SPO doesn't send out letters like that?

As a question, "why don't they have a copy?" is interesting. As a line of reasoning against her claim, I don't see the value.
 
Have you ever quit a job voluntarily, been forced to quit, and fired all at the same time as well? I find it pretty hard to grok all of those things being true for the same instance.

Argument from incredulity noted.

If your relationship with your boss has deteriorated to the point where you re looking for a job, then your boss is likely looking to get rid of you. How the details of that departure play out is largely semantics. Almost nobody is actually fired in the US. You are asked to resign.


My recollection was that she said she had nothing on under her skirt. That's not exactly casual dress code now, and I certainly don't believe it was in the 90's in the halls of the Senate.

Does nothing mean nothing at all or no hosiery? I would have assumed that you found the original quote that made it clear that she was completely nude under a short skirt if that is your claim.


I've never witnessed someone go from groping someone to sneering to comforting like that, no. I've already said it reads a lot more like the plot of a romance novel than how humans interact in the wilds of the office environment.

Neither have I. I have seen someone go from hitting their kid to apologizing, to telling them it was their fault, to saying they didn't really hit them in the span of about 2 minutes. Humans are ******* weird when they know they are wrong.



Yeah, let's just go with touching a woman's shoulders is naturally going to lead to shoving your finger into her hoohah. They're clearly the same!

Being dismissive of personal boundaries is not something I put up with. But, really: which candidate on the Dem side was most likely to be accused of something like this?
 
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