Passing Peak Trump?

phiwum said:
I prefer to convince people by using facts rather than exaggerations. Indeed, one reason I despise Trump is that he can't stick to the truth.

Maybe you don't give a damn one way or the other and think that all that matters is getting the bastard out of office by whatever means necessary (in terms of persuading voters -- I'm presuming violence is a step too far). I disagree.

It's got nothing to do with whether Trump deserves to be treated fairly. I'm not even talking about memes, which are generally beneath contempt. This is a skeptics' forum. We should try to be reasonably accurate. We should avoid strawmen, especially in a case such as this where Trump's own words really are damning enough that hyperbole adds very little.
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I do not and have never advocated violence to remove Trump nor violating the law. Down that path lies madness. However, anything else, regardless of how dishonest, immoral or unethical are justified in removing Trump. If the bleach memes create a new truth which impacts swing voters in swing states, then they should continue. They go low you go high gets you a filthy Russian whore in the Whitehouse.

When you wrestle with a pig you might get dirty but if you do it right, you'll also get bacon.
 
thaiboxerken said:
Thank you for agreeing that it's a valid point.
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Wow. Quoting only the antecedent of a conditional statement and pretending that it indicates agreement is pretty damned lame. Do you think Hendrix was a moron for believing 6 was 9?
 
Craig4 said:
I do not and have never advocated violence to remove Trump nor violating the law. Down that path lies madness.
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I definitely wasn't suggesting that you advocated violence. The parenthetical was just to make clear that I didn't think you were doing so.

However, anything else, regardless of how dishonest, immoral or unethical are justified in removing Trump. If the bleach memes create a new truth which impacts swing voters in swing states, then they should continue. They go low you go high gets you a filthy Russian whore in the Whitehouse.

When you wrestle with a pig you might get dirty but if you do it right, you'll also get bacon.
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We've had this disagreement before. No need to go in the same circles again. Let me sum up a few of my addled notions and then I'll bow out of this dispute.

I tend to think that not giving enough respect for truth is a large part of what got us into this mess. I don't think it'll get us out of this mess. Perhaps it could remove Trump from office, but if the guy who gets in did so because an effective lie is better than the truth, many of the same problems will remain.

One who gets into office by profiting from lies is unlikely to turn to honesty.
 
More accurately:
theprestige said:
A lot of anti-trump supportsentiment seems to boil down to wild flailing, propped up by fans blowing hot air.
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Besides the idea that taking disinfectant internally is plausible, so plausible that many of his listeners actually tried it.

And let's not forget:
United States
Coronavirus Cases:
976,403
Deaths:
54,965
Recovered:
118,633

But, oh yes, one death, 55,000 deaths, what's the difference? 4 deaths are tragedy, 55,000 are a statistic, amIright?
 
LSSBB said:
More accurately:


Besides the idea that taking disinfectant internally is plausible, so plausible that many of his listeners actually tried it.

And let's not forget:
United States
Coronavirus Cases:
976,403
Deaths:
54,965
Recovered:
118,633

But, oh yes, one death, 55,000 deaths, what's the difference? 4 deaths are tragedy, 55,000 are a statistic, amIright?
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But what about those e-mails?!?!?!
 
theprestige said:
Did any of those fifty-five thousand people inject disinfectant because Trump told them to?
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No, because they are dead, and Trump delayed addressing the problem, downplayed the problem, and inspired his followers to downplay the problem, for 2 months as it spread like wildfire across the nation.

Enough said. I have my own life to lead. As a last request, please ask Trump to fiddle The Devil Went Down to Georgia for me.
 
phiwum said:
I definitely wasn't suggesting that you advocated violence. The parenthetical was just to make clear that I didn't think you were doing so.



We've had this disagreement before. No need to go in the same circles again. Let me sum up a few of my addled notions and then I'll bow out of this dispute.

I tend to think that not giving enough respect for truth is a large part of what got us into this mess. I don't think it'll get us out of this mess. Perhaps it could remove Trump from office, but if the guy who gets in did so because an effective lie is better than the truth, many of the same problems will remain.

One who gets into office by profiting from lies is unlikely to turn to honesty.
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I don't think Biden needs to or should go low. There's enough PAC money out there that he can keeps his hands clean while anti Trump PACs do the dirty work.
 
phiwum said:
No, he didn't. He said that we should waste government resources to look into it. His comments were likely to cause stupid people to self-medicate with disinfectant. Both those things are bad enough.

He did not literally tell anyone to inject disinfectant. He didn't even tell researchers to inject anyone, but to investigate if disinfectant could somehow be used internally.

His actual behavior is stupid enough. I don't see any reason to exaggerate it. In your favor, you corrected someone who said he told people to drink bleach.
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That. There is no need to misrepresent what Trump says or does. What he actually says and does is bad enough. Misrepresentation just gives credence to his claims of Fake News.
 
Craig4 said:
We're only on the amuse bouche right now but the meal is certainly looking rather tasty so far.
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I never heard that phrase in my entire life, then ran across two references in two days.
 
Stacyhs said:
That. There is no need to misrepresent what Trump says or does. What he actually says and does is bad enough. Misrepresentation just gives credence to his claims of Fake News.
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We’re quibbling about the exact nature of the staggeringly stupid and dangerous thing Trump said. It’s not like Craig4 manufactured something out of whole cloth.

As much as being accurate is important, being overly pedantic about certain details plays more into the “Fake News” ploy than anything because it sends people down rabbit holes of semantic debate until the actual issue is no longer the issue.
 
theprestige said:
Did any of those fifty-five thousand people inject disinfectant because Trump told them to?
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I'm sure this will just get me more "whataboutobama" and other deflections, but I'll bite: sadly the answer is yes:

https://twitter.com/VaughnHillyard/status/1242253997005664257

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And yes, quibbling over exactly what Trump said is just wasted time. I heard the recording. It was outrageous and unfathomably stupid. What exactly he said is irrelevant.
 
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Safe-Keeper said:
I'm sure this will just get me more "whataboutobama" and other deflections, but I'll bite: sadly the answer is yes:

https://twitter.com/VaughnHillyard/status/1242253997005664257

eta
And yes, quibbling over exactly what Trump said is just wasted time. I heard the recording. It was outrageous and unfathomably stupid. What exactly he said is irrelevant.
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I think most conservatives have moved on from “What about Obama?” to “I don’t care if people die”.

Which actually brings us full circle.
 
johnny karate said:
We’re quibbling about the exact nature of the staggeringly stupid and dangerous thing Trump said. It’s not like Craig4 manufactured something out of whole cloth.
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I wasn't thinking of Craig4's post at all, only agreeing that we don't need to misrepresent what Trump says or does.


As much as being accurate is important, being overly pedantic about certain details plays more into the “Fake News” ploy than anything because it sends people down rabbit holes of semantic debate until the actual issue is no longer the issue.
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I disagree. If we stick to what is actually said, instead of hyperbole/misrepresentations, there would be no reason to be pedantic. No one would need to point out that that's not what Trump actually said.
 
Stacyhs said:
That. There is no need to misrepresent what Trump says or does. What he actually says and does is bad enough. Misrepresentation just gives credence to his claims of Fake News.
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I agree with this in principle. In practice, it doesn't matter, as the opposing force does not adhere to facts or reality what so ever. There's nobody to convince using facts and evidence, because those who are susceptible to it are already against Trump.
 
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