Cont: Donald Trump has 'dangerous mental illness' say psychiatry experts at Yale... Pt 3

The Don said:
No doubt his supporters would say that he wasn't directly advocating injecting cleaning products or placing UV sources in the lungs, he was suggesting that scientists maybe think outside the box and explore ways to directly attack Coronavirus chemically or with radiation.

Chemotherapy and radiotherapy are effective treatments for cancer so why not explore their use in the fight against Coronavirus ?

President Trump is a visionary whose job it is to provide the vital catalyst to the people working to address Coronavirus, not to work through the minutiae of each particular thread. That's not to say that he couldn't do exactly that - after all his uncle was an MIT professor and those around him are continually amazed by his intellect and knowledge - but his responsibilities are so broad that it would be irresponsible for him to concentrate on just one thing.

;) :rolleyes:
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Brilliantly done! :thumbsup:
 
I honestly didn't think anyone would try. Well done for sticking to your guns. I mean, it's bollocks rationalisation, that's clear, but I'm impressed by your refusal to accept reality.
 
xjx388 said:
Can we get a full quote of this insanity?
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From a BBC article, here are the paragraphs in question.

"So, supposing we hit the body with a tremendous - whether it's ultraviolet or just very powerful light," the president said, turning to Dr Deborah Birx, the White House coronavirus response co-ordinator, "and I think you said that hasn't been checked but you're going to test it.

"And then I said, supposing you brought the light inside of the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way. And I think you said you're going to test that too. Sounds interesting," the president continued.
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"And then I see the disinfectant where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning?

"So it'd be interesting to check that."

Pointing to his head, Mr Trump went on: "I'm not a doctor. But I'm, like, a person that has a good you-know-what."
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52399464

Which is why I have repeatedly said that he didn't explicitly suggest injecting disinfectant.
 
xjx388 said:
Can we get a full quote of this insanity?
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Probably.

I don't know that it matters though, as is pointed out above, he doesn't actually mean what he says. Except when he does. Although he's a self proclaimed expert in everything.

Can you tell me which bit he means and which he doesn't?

From here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52407177



"So, supposing we hit the body with a tremendous - whether it's ultraviolet or just very powerful light," the president said, turning to Dr Deborah Birx, the White House coronavirus response co-ordinator, "and I think you said that hasn't been checked but you're going to test it.

"And then I said, supposing you brought the light inside of the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way. And I think you said you're going to test that too. Sounds interesting," the president continued.
Media captionDonald Trump criticised Georgia’s governor for reopening

"And then I see the disinfectant where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning?

"So it'd be interesting to check that."
 
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LSSBB said:
If you mean follow his advice, they would, and I'm guessing Trump got the idea from someone else, and wanted to use it to display his genius.
QAnon-ers’ Magic Cure for Coronavirus: Just Drink Bleach!
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No, I didn't mean that. Someone made a post that I responded to without quoting it, then they edited the post before time was up on changing it without a notification. It's probably best just to ignore that post of mine. Sorry.
 
And he actually managed to make it worse. In the video, he certainly seemed to think that he was trying to help. Which simply says he's unaware of his limitations.

He's now claimed that was sarcastic. Which is obviously untrue, and if it were, it would have been utterly inappropriate. But it does show how utterly fragile his ego is.


But further from this.

Lurch said:
Really? That there are the voices there are causes you no impulse to consider that there may be reason for concern?

How many such voices would you require? Would more folk raising alarums result in your resetting your expectations for yet more?

Consider for a moment those 1000 prosecutors who signed a letter stating that they considered evidence against Trump sufficient to warrant indictment. After the impeachment saga result, it's clear Republicans will not let such competent opinion sway them.

If but a fraction of what is written and said by *professionals* on Trump would have been directed at Obama, how would your tune have sounded? We can be sure Republicans and their supporters would have collectively screeched and howled.
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jimbob said:
And it's getting to be a moot point.

The OP in this thread was claiming out that Trump has a mental condition would lead him to act in a way that's dangerous.

His response to COVID-19 has certainly demonstrated some really bizarre behaviour and also some actions that have made the situation worse, which will lead to the needlessly avoidable deaths of thousands of Americans.

Without his bizarre behaviour, it might be difficult to claim he wasn't just utterly callous. With it, the simplest explanation is some form of mental illness. I'm going for some type of dementia, on top of almost textbook NPD.
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XJX388, is there any behaviour that a POTUS would display that would make you say that the 25th Amendment should be invoked? At the moment, I'm struggling to see what more he could do to demonstrate his complete unfitness for office on grounds of mental incapacity.
 
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Evidence of his pathologic behavior: watch how many of his proclamations and crazy ideas correlate with his imaginary world where the virus magically disappears (because he wants that to be real), and/or a magic bullet is found (because he wants that to be real). and/or the virus simply goes away in the summer (because he wants that to be real), and 'his' greatest economy in the history of the world (because he believes that fantasy) will simply start running full speed again in a few months (because he wants that to be real), and anything or person that exposes these fantasies are a plot/plotter against him personally (because he believes that fantasy).

That is all part of his pathology. And as we have seen over the last 3+ years, he cannot help himself.
 
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p0lka said:
I'm no fan of trump, but to be fair he was asking the scientists if they could look into his stupid idea,
he wasn't advocating people do it themselves.
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"The sentence "It'd be interesting to check that" is not directed at any scientists explicitly. Saying it is there is supplying your own interpretation. Resorting on followers who believe his every word, many who do not trust scientists, is dangerous. The "bleach" proponents who fed him the idea a few days earlier certainly don't trust scientists.
 
p0lka said:
I'm no fan of trump, but to be fair he was asking the scientists if they could look into his stupid idea,
he wasn't advocating people do it themselves.
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That seems to be so, but I think given Trump's history of espousing stupid theories, of believing he's smarter than everyone else, and the history of those who follow him and believe him, it was at the very least recklessly, cluelessly stupid.

If he actually wanted scientists to look into his wacky and dangerous theories, he could, of course, have asked them off camera. I mean, I don't think it would be too hard to ask one of the many medical experts who are, one hopes, on tap during this crisis: "Hey, what would happen if you injected yourself with bleach?" But no, he chose to do it on camera for a nationwide audience, with the implication that he'd thought of something ingenious that they had not.

If that is not crazily megalomaniacal, it's outrageously (some might well say unforgiveably) stupid. As usual, the only way it seems possible to justify Trump's crazy behavior is to characterize him as too stupid to pass for crazy. Quite a choice.
 
The Don said:
I'll bite.....

He's not insane, just ignorant.
He sees that disinfectant is effective at killing Coronavirus. People with Coronavirus need to have it killed so why not see whether "disinfectant" can be introduced into the human body.

Maybe it's not literally a name-brand disinfectant but maybe some medically-safe substance that does a similar job. Maybe he's just suggesting that the scientific Poindexters take a lead from a real-world can-do guy like himself and investigate some out of the box alternatives because whatever they're doing isn't working fast enough for the Great American People.

I can see, many months or years down the road, that there possibly may be a treatment for Coronavirus which chemically attacks the Coronavirus in-situ, a bit like a disinfectant. President Trump will proudly proclaim that it's his brilliant idea and that he has the greatest mind of all time ignoring the minor details that:

  • The treatment was under development months before his ridiculous utterances
  • The treatment isn't a disinfectant, it's a poorly chosen analogy to try and educate the scientifically illiterate and hard of understanding - like President Trump
  • It isn't injected, it's administered by other means
  • The development of, testing of and distribution of the treatment wasn't inspired or helped by President Trump in any way, shape or form
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That statement was not ignorant, it was stupid. Big difference.

I agree Trump isn't insane, but he is mentally ill. The two are not synonymous.
 
jimbob said:
And he actually managed to make it worse. In the video, he certainly seemed to think that he was trying to help. Which simply says he's unaware of his limitations.

He's now claimed that was sarcastic. Which is obviously untrue, and if it were, it would have been utterly inappropriate. But it does show how utterly fragile his ego is.


But further from this.





XJX388, is there any behaviour that a POTUS would display that would make you say that the 25th Amendment should be invoked? At the moment, I'm struggling to see what more he could do to demonstrate his complete unfitness for office on grounds of mental incapacity.
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You are questioning me about something irrelevant to what I’ve been saying. I wouldn’t object if the VP or the Cabinet initiated 25th amendment proceedings to have him removed just based on his utter cluelessness, demonstrated incompetence and public inanity.

That has nothing to do with my argument here. I’m objecting to medical professionals issuing public diagnoses/evaluations for which there is no basis according to the ethics and standards of their professions. I’m objecting to “professional opinions” that are not based on professional practice.

I’ve made my layperson opinion about Trump very clear. I have no objection to lay opinions or if medical professionals would speak out as citizens and not medical professionals.
 
p0lka said:
I'm no fan of trump, but to be fair he was asking the scientists if they could look into his stupid idea,
he wasn't advocating people do it themselves.
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So asking scientists to try injecting disinfectants?

Asking scientists to do anything, Trump is a Dufus. Does he believe his passing on some ignorant suggestion to doctors is a useful thing to do?

Trump is asking doctors and scientists to do X because in Trump's pathologic fantasy, these ideas of magical cures are real.
 
Stacyhs said:
That statement was not ignorant, it was stupid. Big difference.

I agree Trump isn't insane, but he is mentally ill. The two are not synonymous.
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I wonder if you can elucidate what you see as the difference. “Dangerously mentally ill,” is a pretty good shorthand for “insane” in a clinical sense.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
So asking scientists to try injecting disinfectants?

Asking scientists to do anything, Trump is a Dufus. Does he believe his passing on some ignorant suggestion to doctors is a useful thing to do?

Trump is asking doctors and scientists to do X because in Trump's pathologic fantasy, these ideas of magical cures are real.
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Trump is ignorant and he thinks he is smarter than he really is. No argument. He engaged in some ignorant speculation. He’s dumb and dumb is dangerous in a POTUS.

Pathology is not a necessary ingredient in the **** salad Trump is serving us.
 
xjx388 said:
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That has nothing to do with my argument here. I’m objecting to medical professionals issuing public diagnoses/evaluations for which there is no basis according to the ethics and standards of their professions. I’m objecting to “professional opinions” that are not based on professional practice.I’ve made my layperson opinion about Trump very clear. I have no objection to lay opinions or if medical professionals would speak out as citizens and not medical professionals.
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Do you not see any contradiction in those words?

Should medical professionals observing the obvious not voice their professional predictions as to how Trump's pathology is guiding his actions?
 
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