Biden for President?

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Segnosaur said:
Actually the worst that could happen:

Obama endorses Biden... Biden loses and Sanders/Warren/Buttigieg/etc. win. Obama switches his endorsement. But, Obama's early endorsement of Biden has caused a few of his supporters to become strongly attached to Biden.

General election comes along... some of those former Biden supporters decide they won't vote for the eventual Democratic nominee, in part because they were too disappointed in "Obama's guy" losing.
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You're making Democratic voters sound like idiots.
 
pgwenthold said:
For Pete's sake, in 2016 Bernie bros all whined because "the establishment" was biased. So Obama stayed out until the nomination was secure.
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Stacyhs said:
That's because he didn't have the courage to endorse earlier and was worried about his 'image'. : rolleyes :
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You're not going to chide pgw for mind-reading Obama's intentions?
 
rockysmith76 said:
Just showing some proportion amidst all the silly hyperbole being thrown around.
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People dying by the thousands while our economy implodes isn’t “silly hyperbole”.

It’s a stark reality being worsened by the incompetence and venality of Republicans.
 
Stacyhs said:
Sometimes the wise choice is the easy one. The decision wasn't made for him; he made the decision of when and whom to endorse.
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Without knowing Obama's mind, only seeing his actions, how can you tell if he made the wise choice or the easy choice here?

"Every other voter's" endorsement does not carry the same weight as Obama's. My, or your, or Joe Blow Next Door's endorsement means diddly squat to anyone but ourselves.
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How much weight does Barack Obama's endorsement actually carry, when he's just agreeing with what the voters have already decided for themselves?

Anyway, my point isn't that Obama's endorsement doesn't carry weight. It's that he has good reasons for preferring one candidate over the others, just like every other voter. And he can explain his reasons, just like any other voter. The argument that he shouldn't endorse Biden because then he'd have to explain why doesn't make much sense to me.

Presumably he's been able to make the case for nominating Biden for months, if not years. For whatever reason, he's chosen to hold off endorsing Biden until there's no need for him to make the case for it. Ironically, he's now just relying on the Obama image to boost voter enthusiasm for Biden in the general election. Which he could have done, and would have done, for whoever the presumptive nominee was. So his endorsement at this stage is pretty much a rubber-stamp.

Whether Obama's inner life includes a sincere and compelling case that has been made for Biden over the other candidates, we will probably never know.
 
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pgwenthold said:
For Pete's sake, in 2016 Bernie bros all whined because "the establishment" was biased. So Obama stayed out until the nomination was secure.
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Stacyhs said:
That's because he didn't have the courage to endorse earlier and was worried about his 'image'. :rolleyes:
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theprestige said:
You're not going to chide pgw for mind-reading Obama's intentions?
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pgw's comment is based on history and a logical conclusion based on that history. Yours was not. Yours was based mostly on what you assume Obama was thinking and feeling:

"seems to be the only choice Obama is confident about"
"He waited until the decision was made for him"
"Obama seems a lot more concerned about his image, and a lot more protective of it"
" it seems like he lacks the courage to risk being wrong.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Assuming Biden wins, it's going to be a strange presidency.

His key issue is removing Trump, which he achieves the first second he steps into the white house.

What is his mandate after that? I know he has policies, but it's pretty clear to me that people supporting him don't really care at all about them. 4 years of rudderless ship? 4 years of running headlong into a McConnell brick wall in the Senate and a fractious, inward fighting Democratic party? Gonna be fun!
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4 years of trolling Republicans on FB and twitter. Gotta' be worth something.


ETA: I just checked and at least Joe was smart enough to get his FB and Twitter handles sorted out (i.e. JoeBiden) and not forced to use "real" in front of his name.
 
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theprestige said:
Without knowing Obama's mind, only seeing his actions, how can you tell if he made the wise choice or the easy choice here?


How much weight does Barack Obama's endorsement actually carry, when he's just agreeing with what the voters have already decided for themselves?

Anyway, my point isn't that Obama's endorsement doesn't carry weight. It's that he has good reasons for preferring one candidate over the others, just like every other voter. And he can explain his reasons, just like any other voter. The argument that he shouldn't endorse Biden because then he'd have to explain why doesn't make much sense to me.

Presumably he's been able to make the case for nominating Biden for months, if not years. For whatever reason, he's chosen to hold off endorsing Biden until there's no need for him to make the case for it. Ironically, he's now just relying on the Obama image to boost voter enthusiasm for Biden in the general election. Which he could have done, and would have done, for whoever the presumptive nominee was. So his endorsement at this stage is pretty much a rubber-stamp.

Whether Obama's inner life includes a sincere and compelling case that has been made for Biden over the other candidates, we will probably never know.
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Why didn't Obama endorse Biden before now? Because Biden asked him not to:

Joe Biden has told his former boss not to endorse him.

Hours after Biden, 76, announced his 2020 presidential campaign, the former vice president told reporters that he purposely urged Barack Obama to hold off on declaring his approval.

“I asked President Obama not to endorse,” Biden told reporters on Thursday. “Whoever wins this nomination should win it on their own merits.”
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Nuff said?
 
theprestige said:
Actually the worst that could happen:
...
General election comes along... some of those former Biden supporters decide they won't vote for the eventual Democratic nominee, in part because they were too disappointed in "Obama's guy" losing.
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You're making Democratic voters sound like idiots.
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"voters" are not some monolithic group who vote the same way for exactly the same reasons.

In 2016, most Bernie supporters switched to Clinton, but some did not.

In 2008, most Clinton supporters switched to Obama, but some did not.

Not everyone will have the same reasons for switching party support, but I cannot deny some might do so for irrational reasons (even if it is just a small minority).
 
Stacyhs said:
TP said:
... In some ways, Obama seems a lot more concerned about his image, and a lot more protective of it, than Trump does.
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DAMN! I nearly spit out my tea when I read that. It's not his image he's protecting. He just knows that his words have consequences unlike Trump who just opens his mouth and spews out whatever he thinks is advantageous to him at the moment.
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That is typical right-wing projection, thinking someone like Obama cares more about his image than the country.
 
Constantly surprised by people....

Even if Biden hadn't asked him not to, I'm amazed people think anything at all about Obama ie the ex-President, not endorsing until it's decided.

I would have assumed he (and any other previous Democrat President) would keep schtum about any preferences to avoid influencing the outcome and ensure it's a fair contest. His endorsement could potentially have had huge influence. Seems only right and proper to stay out of it and then endorse whoever won (unless he had a strong moral objection to them - unlikely).

Then again, I'm British and we're a polite lot who understand manners and fair play:p....don't know why I'm bigging us up when we elected that complete knob-head Boris mind...
 
Ethan Thane Athen said:
Constantly surprised by people....

Even if Biden hadn't asked him not to, I'm amazed people think anything at all about Obama ie the ex-President, not endorsing until it's decided.

I would have assumed he (and any other previous Democrat President) would keep schtum about any preferences to avoid influencing the outcome and ensure it's a fair contest.
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Influencing the outcome is the entire point of the exercise.

Also, it's not a competitive sporting event. It's not a criminal trial or a college scholarship application. There's nothing unfair about the guy who's earned a former president's trust and respect, enjoying the former president's support during his campaign.

Are you making the contest unfair when you donate to one candidate instead of another, and put their sign out in front of your home? Of course not.

What surprises me is the idea -
- that Obama thinks Biden is the best choice,
- and that Biden should be the nominee for the good of the country,
- and that his opinion, voiced publicly, can influence that outcome,
- and he decides not advocate for the right choice and the good of the country,
- because that would be unfair to the other candidates.
 
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