Cont: 2020 Democratic Candidates Tracker Part IV

[Delvo]

Oratory skill is essential to presidential politics. For whatever reason, Biden is very weak at this.

Both he and Trump are. That makes another factor more relevant here.

(At least the appearance of) assertiveness/boldness/confidence is essential to politics. Compare Trump's boatloads of bellicose bombast and bluster with Biden's blind bewildered bumbling. I believe Trump actually has lower self-confidence, but at least he pretends otherwise, and a lot of people's tendency to favor assertive/bold/confident people over aimless wishy-washy self-second-guessers is strong enough to favor even those who merely fake it over those who don't.

 

[Suddenly]

Given his "huge" problem, it's a miracle he got elected in 1973 and has been reelected in every senatorial contest ever since. Right?

I'm sure he can successfully use the drive through speaker to get a burger at McDonalds.

A Delaware Senate race, especially as an incumbant, is closer to that than running for president.

 

[Suddenly]

Both he and Trump are. That makes another factor more relevant here.

(At least the appearance of) assertiveness/boldness/confidence is essential to politics. Compare Trump's boatloads of bellicose bombast and bluster with Biden's blind bewildered bumbling. I believe Trump actually has lower self-confidence, but at least he pretends otherwise, and a lot of people's tendency to favor assertive/bold/confident people over aimless wishy-washy self-second-guessers is strong enough to favor even those who merely fake it over those who don't.

Not giving much of a crap about facts or logic and just wanting to seem dominant requires less skill. Trump is going in just trying to be Trump. He's going to make wild claims and lie and recklessly attack.

There are debate strategies that can minimize Biden's speech issues, but there are also those that could do the opposite. Unless Biden and Biden's people are realistic about his limitations he could look like a fool.

 

[theprestige]

Biden's pretty electable, as long as he doesn't do any of the Biden stuff that makes him kind of unelectable.

 

[Dr. Keith]

Yes, 2016 really was unusual.

Hi, this is April 2020 telling you that 2016 was pretty ******* common and boring by comparison. Enjoy!

Biden's pretty electable, as long as he doesn't do any of the Biden stuff that makes him kind of unelectable.

If only everyone will stop picking on him and vote for him he'll be the most electable. God, I hope that paper thin ******** works, though.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Right now, with the US plunging into a recession on top of 16 thousand dead and more than that in the hospital because Trump screwed up badly, I hope more people are thinking about how to get this country back on its feet rather than spitefully trying to make things worse.

Yes, and just like in 2008, the people in power are going to go to great lengths to ensure wealthy investors and big corporations emerge from the disaster just fine, while letting ordinary people wallow in misery.

Pouring more fuel into the radicalization fire. If I were an accelerationist, left or right wing, I'd be dancing for joy right now.

 

[Sideroxylon]

I'm glad you get it. I have my doubts that the person Segnosaur was responding to does. There are also others in this thread that would rather bern it all down because to the perfect a good person is worse than a bad one.

Biden is plain garbage.

 

[SezMe]

Biden's pretty electable, as long as he doesn't do any of the Biden stuff that makes him kind of unelectable.

A brilliant bon mot. I await with bated breath for your next contribution.

 

[Segnosaur]

Actually, on "military expeditionism", Biden and Trump aren't the same. Biden's worse.

Really?

Lets see:

Yes Biden supported the Iraq invasion and the Libyan bombing campaigns.

But you know what? SO DID TRUMP. (At least initially... he later lied when the conflicts did not go well.)

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/29/poli...-false-claim-opposed-iraq-invasion/index.html

https://www.cnn.com/2016/06/06/politics/trump-clinton-libya-gaddafi-reversal-attack/index.html

And remember, Trump's killing of an Iranian general almost sparked a war.

The big difference between them is not that Biden is more likely to engage in "military expeditionism".... The big differences are that Biden is more likey to do it as part of a multi-national coalition, and he actually understands that: Nuclear weapons and war crimes are both bad things to use. Trump doesn't quite understand those concepts.

https://www.cnn.com/2015/12/02/politics/donald-trump-terrorists-families/index.html

https://www.cnbc.com/2016/08/03/trump-asks-why-us-cant-use-nukes-msnbcs-joe-scarborough-reports.html

 

[Sideroxylon]

When you actually feel the need to make a case that Trump is worse than Biden you are surely onto a winner. America is ******.

 

[Sideroxylon]

Really?

Lets see:

Yes Biden supported the Iraq invasion and the Libyan bombing campaigns.

But you know what? SO DID TRUMP. (At least initially... he later lied when the conflicts did not go well.)

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/29/poli...-false-claim-opposed-iraq-invasion/index.html

https://www.cnn.com/2016/06/06/politics/trump-clinton-libya-gaddafi-reversal-attack/index.html

And remember, Trump's killing of an Iranian general almost sparked a war.

The big difference between them is not that Biden is more likely to engage in "military expeditionism".... The big differences are that Biden is more likey to do it as part of a multi-national coalition, and he actually understands that: Nuclear weapons and war crimes are both bad things to use. Trump doesn't quite understand those concepts.

https://www.cnn.com/2015/12/02/politics/donald-trump-terrorists-families/index.html

https://www.cnbc.com/2016/08/03/trump-asks-why-us-cant-use-nukes-msnbcs-joe-scarborough-reports.html

Trump was a casual observer. Biden on the other hand:
https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp...entisfree/2020/feb/17/joe-biden-role-iraq-war

 

[Segnosaur]

Yes Biden supported the Iraq invasion and the Libyan bombing campaigns.

But you know what? SO DID TRUMP. (At least initially... he later lied when the conflicts did not go well.)

Trump was a casual observer. Biden on the other hand:
https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp...entisfree/2020/feb/17/joe-biden-role-iraq-war

Yes, Biden had more impact on the U.S. role in Iraq than Trump did... but I suspect that was more a case of him actually having influence at the time.

Since Trump was a private citizen at the time, he would have had little impact... but that doesn't mean he was against the war or wouldn't have been as enthusiastic as others were at the time had he actually been a politician.

 

[wareyin]

Yes, and just like in 2008, the people in power are going to go to great lengths to ensure wealthy investors and big corporations emerge from the disaster just fine, while letting ordinary people wallow in misery.

The Democrats have been working pretty hard to get unemployment insurance increased in amount per check and in length. The Republicans have been working hard to give $500 Billion slush funds to large corporations with no oversight. Sadly, some radicals can't see the difference there.

Pouring more fuel into the radicalization fire. If I were an accelerationist, left or right wing, I'd be dancing for joy right now.

Yes, I can see how much concern you have for the ordinary people who need help.

 

[wareyin]

When you actually feel the need to make a case that Trump is worse than Biden you are surely onto a winner. America is ******.

Well, we sort of have to when those working to re-elect Trump say things like this:

Biden is plain garbage.

 

[theprestige]

Yes, Biden had more impact on the U.S. role in Iraq than Trump did... but I suspect that was more a case of him actually having influence at the time.

Since Trump was a private citizen at the time, he would have had little impact... but that doesn't mean he was against the war or wouldn't have been as enthusiastic as others were at the time had he actually been a politician.

On the other hand, with the exception of the Iranian terror general, Trump in office has shown remarkably little appetite for war. Even going to far as to make nice with the warmonger who rules the northern half of the Korean Peninsula. Which I get is super frustrating for all the progressives who wish America would just lance the boil already, and worry about cleaning up the mess later. But it probably came as a relief to the several million inhabitants of the peninsula whose lives hang in the balance.

 

[theprestige]

When you actually feel the need to make a case that Trump is worse than Biden you are surely onto a winner. America is ******.

The funny thing is, America is actually doing fine. As predicted, the country's culture and institutions are more than strong enough to handle four years of President Trump. Most countries wish they had so few problems that "Trump vs Biden?" was enough to send them into a "this country is ******" tizzy.

Check your privilege, Sid. Check your privilege.

 

[Sideroxylon]

Well, we sort of have to when those working to re-elect Trump say things like this:

What a horrible position to be in. Forced to remain silent or go into contortions to play down Biden’s obvious shocking character and policy flaws.

 

[theprestige]

What a horrible position to be in. Forced to remain silent or go into contortions to play down Biden’s obvious shocking character and policy flaws.

Donald Trump is president. You've been in a horrible position for the last three and a half years. Now you've got an exit strategy, you're complaining it's not easy enough. Is it doable? Then put on your big boy pants, stop complaining, and ******* do it.

 

[Segnosaur]

Re: Trump vs. Biden and military action...

On the other hand, with the exception of the Iranian terror general, Trump in office has shown remarkably little appetite for war.

So he's not interested in engaging in war, except when he's interested in engaging in war.

(Oh, and don't forget... Trump's attack against a Syrian airport over its use of chemical weapons... When Obama was in the same situation, he declined to act without approval from Congress.)

Even going to far as to make nice with the warmonger who rules the northern half of the Korean Peninsula.

Oh, that's right, I forgot about when Obama started a war against North Korea.

Wait a second... that didn't actually happen.

The fact is, no president (neither democrat nor republican) has decided to launch a major military offensive against North Korea since the end of the Korean war. So its not like Trump should get any brownie points for not bombing North Korea.

And while Trump has engaged in high-level talks with Kim Jong-un, he also insulted him on Twitter. (And North Korea has continued to work on its missile programs, so all of Trump's diplomacy has resulted in nothing.)

I think its accurate to say that Trump's dialog with North Korea has less to do with a desire for peace on Trump's part, and more to do with how easily he is manipulated.

 

[Sideroxylon]

Donald Trump is president. You've been in a horrible position for the last three and a half years. Now you've got an exit strategy, you're complaining it's not easy enough. Is it doable? Then put on your big boy pants, stop complaining, and ******* do it.

That is too funny a take. We need a laugh in these times.