Cont: 2020 Democratic Candidates Tracker Part IV

[Sideroxylon]

Excellent news! Obviously Bernie's programme is way better than Biden's but what can you do. The main focus should totally be in defeating that disgusting, dangerous person in the White House. And hopefully after it, the radicalized, fanatical, anti-science and anti-reason party behind that scoundrel.

They say fight fire with fire so lets try **** with ****.

 

[theprestige]

That's a YUUUUUGE stretch based on a few noisy posters on an obscure board in a non-skeptic subforum.

"Subforum".

This is the context in which our posts are made. It is the context in which they should be interpreted.

Whether this cosm is a microcosm of a larger cosm remains to be seen. Certainly those who express political opinions here seem to believe they are expressing opinions that they share with many millions of others. Whether they actually speak for those millions or not, it seems reasonable to take their commentary in the spirit in which it is offered.

Anyway, at least my stretch contains a testable prediction: We can see what voter turnout looks like in November, and we can look at opinion polls, and draw some conclusions about how many Bernie Bros stayed home rather than pull the lever for Biden.

Didn't we already see this in some of the primaries? The predicted Bernie-thusiasm never materialized at the polls?

 

[theprestige]

I've heard this several times in relation to one candidate or another, and I'm taken aback every time. I'm here to comment on reality as I see it, not to be in campaign mode. Not only do I not wish to be in campaign mode, I discount posters who impress me as being in campaign mode, because they're more apt to be reciting talking points or otherwise full of bs.

The day I become a DNC spokesman, I assure you I will be in campaign mode.

I guess the question is, why *aren't* you in campaign mode? It's an election year. Donald Trump is the incumbent. Political speech is an important right, well worth exercising. Advocating for a candidate is entirely appropriate and probably necessary right now.

Is this really the right time for "Trump or not, I don't care; here's reality as I see it"?

 

[theprestige]

I mean, sure, Trump has worse scandals by the score and voters didn't care. It's an absurd double standard, but that's reality. The hillary emails things was an anchor around her neck while every day brought new dirt on Trump that didn't seem to hurt him.

It's not a double standard. It's an infinite standard. Each candidate is unique.

I think you may be overlooking a very important part of what makes Trump unique: He got votes from people who were sick and tired of Hillary-shills excusing her scandalous behavior. If that's your standard, let's see you apply it now.

Oh, I guess that's not your standard. Huh.

You won't get those votes back by offering someone like Trump. There is no one like Trump, and anyway we already have Trump. And you won't get those votes back by offering someone who represents the same status quo ante that contributed to those Trump votes in the first place.

The way for the DNC to get those votes back is, in the words of Michelle Obama, to "be better". Or at least to act better. Let's see how well Biden manages to pull this off.

 

[llwyd]

It's an infinite standard.

Yep, well put. Infinitely the Democratic candidates, more or less flawed, will be more flawed than this childish, short sighted, ignorant egomaniac in the White House. Yeah, like Biden is "flawed", fgs. If Biden is flawed, what the hell is then this incumbent child egoist always blaming everyone else?

 

[TurkeysGhost]

It's not a double standard. It's an infinite standard. Each candidate is unique.

I think you may be overlooking a very important part of what makes Trump unique: He got votes from people who were sick and tired of Hillary-shills excusing her scandalous behavior. If that's your standard, let's see you apply it now.

Oh, I guess that's not your standard. Huh.

You won't get those votes back by offering someone like Trump. There is no one like Trump, and anyway we already have Trump. And you won't get those votes back by offering someone who represents the same status quo ante that contributed to those Trump votes in the first place.

The way for the DNC to get those votes back is, in the words of Michelle Obama, to "be better". Or at least to act better. Let's see how well Biden manages to pull this off.

I don't understand your jab about me and my standards, care to explain further? I thought Hillary sucked in 2016, and I think Biden sucks now, and both were obviously better than Trump. What's the lack of consistency you detect? I won't be happy with a Biden presidency, but I'll be much happier with that than a second term of Trump.


The same people that swept Hillary's baggage under the rug as busy doing the same for Biden.

They are calling a sexual assault accuser a lying, hare-brained trollop after throwing a fit for Kavanaugh. Prominent metoo people are deleting their social media posts from that time as they insist that there's nothing to see here with Tara Reade. They are saying it's totally fine and good that Biden's fail-son is getting cushy do-nothing jobs.

Trump is going to run, again, as an open degenerate vs a hypocritical Democrat who pretends to be holier than thou. Let's see if it works this time.

 

[Delvo]

At least now, if the anti-Bernie attack machine finally starts to wind down, I'll have to do significantly less putting up with watching idiots try to write the possessive form of his name as if his name were "Sander" and there were more than one of him.

 

[TragicMonkey]

At least now, if the anti-Bernie attack machine finally starts to wind down, I'll have to do significantly less putting up with watching idiots try to write the possessive form of his name as if his name were "Sander" and there were more than one of him.

That's part of Sander's's''s' charm!


(As a person whose surname ends in S also, I sympathize.)

 

[Solitaire]

Now the anti-anyone-but-Sanders crowd is really going to get loud. Sigh

Kudos to Sanders for dropping out fairly early this time.

My gawd!

Elective office kills so many that hold it. He'll die of something in a month.
Then Biden will catch the virus and just before put on the ventilator machine
he'll say in a weakened voice, "What every you do, [medical alarm screams]
vote for Trump." Then he'll die within a month too.

I went to end of the highway again with my cardboard sign saying, "Will sell
soul for toilet paper" while wearing a reverend Lovejoy outfit. The only rolls
I got were from teenagers rolling their eyes as the drove past.

 

[wareyin]

I guess the question is, why *aren't* you in campaign mode? It's an election year. Donald Trump is the incumbent. Political speech is an important right, well worth exercising. Advocating for a candidate is entirely appropriate and probably necessary right now.

Is this really the right time for "Trump or not, I don't care; here's reality as I see it"?

Why does it feel so odd that you and I are looking at this in a similar manner?

 

[theprestige]

I don't understand your jab about me and my standards, care to explain further? I thought Hillary sucked in 2016, and I think Biden sucks now, and both were obviously better than Trump. What's the lack of consistency you detect? I won't be happy with a Biden presidency, but I'll be much happier with that than a second term of Trump.


The same people that swept Hillary's baggage under the rug as busy doing the same for Biden.

They are calling a sexual assault accuser a lying, hare-brained trollop after throwing a fit for Kavanaugh. Prominent metoo people are deleting their social media posts from that time as they insist that there's nothing to see here with Tara Reade. They are saying it's totally fine and good that Biden's fail-son is getting cushy do-nothing jobs.

Trump is going to run, again, as an open degenerate vs a hypocritical Democrat who pretends to be holier than thou. Let's see if it works this time.

My apologies. It was a rhetorical you.

 

[theprestige]

That's part of Sander's's''s' charm!


(As a person whose surname ends in S also, I sympathize.)

TragicMonkeys?

 

[wareyin]

Yep, well put. Infinitely the Democratic candidates, more or less flawed, will be more flawed than this childish, short sighted, ignorant egomaniac in the White House. Yeah, like Biden is "flawed", fgs. If Biden is flawed, what the hell is then this incumbent child egoist always blaming everyone else?

Agreed. For so many, it's more important to scream about how bad the not-quite-perfect candidate is over and over, while occasionally whispering the fig-leaf Trump is also not good. It's one thing when "independents" that are obviously hard-core conservatives do it, as you know their endgame is to get Trump elected. It's quite another thing watching people work so hard to tear down the only obstacle to another Trump term when they actually are progressives.

 

[Aridas]

The Bidenistas' claims that it was already all over for a while now have been inaccurate all along with not even half of the points assigned yet, but there is good reason to quit now anyway: it legitimizes the idea of cancelling all remaining primaries/caucuses, which is a good idea medically regardless of politics, and it eliminates the potential for conflict between campaign activities and medical advice. It's also consistent with what Bernie's been doing for a while anyway, working on the medical situation rather than the campaign.

It's probably worth pointing out that... just about always, there's more on the ballot than just the race for President.

Those are the ones that each individual voter has much more influence over. Going further, those votes are actually more important to how our country actually gets run in a lot of ways. Don't ignore the down-ballot people!

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

You think you might have proven your point, but what you've done is actually illustrated that you don't understand the issues.

Obamacare had protection for pre-existing conditions. Expanded subsidies/a public option/etc. (i.e. the policies that Biden was putting forward) would have dealt with those uninsured. There would be no need to go with the Berniecare "Medicare for all/waiting lists-a-plenty".

So, health care becomes the purity test... because to the hardcore BernieBro (i.e. the ones who will not support Biden), it has to be "medicare for all" or its crap, rather than saying "I'd prefer medicare for all, but I'll be happy enough with expanded care if it covers people currently ignored".

The number of uninsured isn't what sparks support for M4A. Under Obamacare more people got access to healthcare... from insurance companies that raised deductibles and premiums, and deny coverage for a host of reasons, and leave hundreds of thousands of people bankrupt every year. But hey, we get some subsidies to feed into this horrid system, go us! Adding a public option to the current system might even make things worse, with private companies dumping their unhealthy customers on the public system.

 

[varwoche]

I guess the question is, why *aren't* you in campaign mode? It's an election year. Donald Trump is the incumbent. Political speech is an important right, well worth exercising. Advocating for a candidate is entirely appropriate and probably necessary right now.

Is this really the right time for "Trump or not, I don't care; here's reality as I see it"?

I like to think that my non-campaign mode thoughts make a compelling anti-Trump case.

 

[wareyin]

I like to think that my non-campaign mode thoughts make a compelling anti-Trump case.

Reality makes a compelling anti-Trump case, but some 40% of voters are backing Trump in spite of it. Hopefully, we don't have too many "non-campaign" people who loudly decry how bad the only other option is this time around in some sort of blinkered "we all know Trump sucks, so I will not mention that. Rather I will go on and on about how a man with a well-known speech impediment didn't speak perfectly. What could go wrong?"

 

[Sideroxylon]

Reality makes a compelling anti-Trump case, but some 40% of voters are backing Trump in spite of it. Hopefully, we don't have too many "non-campaign" people who loudly decry how bad the only other option is this time around in some sort of blinkered "we all know Trump sucks, so I will not mention that. Rather I will go on and on about how a man with a well-known speech impediment didn't speak perfectly. What could go wrong?"

Don’t mention the 1988 campaign. I did once but I think I got away with it.

 

[3point14]

It's not a double standard. It's an infinite standard. Each candidate is unique.

I think you may be overlooking a very important part of what makes Trump unique: He got votes from people who were sick and tired of Hillary-shills excusing her scandalous behavior.

Which particular scandalous behaviour are you referring to?

If that's your standard, let's see you apply it now.

Oh, I guess that's not your standard. Huh.

You won't get those votes back by offering someone like Trump. There is no one like Trump, and anyway we already have Trump. And you won't get those votes back by offering someone who represents the same status quo ante that contributed to those Trump votes in the first place.

The way for the DNC to get those votes back is, in the words of Michelle Obama, to "be better". Or at least to act better. Let's see how well Biden manages to pull this off.

 

[SezMe]

I have no idea. The allure of Biden is a complete mystery to me.

I have no idea how they are going to deal with the circus Trump is going to fire up soon for the general election. Between the fail-son getting nepotism gigs, cringey videos of Biden nuzzling children, and the totally unexplored sexual assault allegation, it's going to be an absolute field day. I hope they have an effective response to this, because anyone with eyes has seen Biden's many faults coming over the horizon for over a year now.

That one is a non-starter. The rest will most certainly be in play but I could cite issues with every other Dem candidate who, had they gotten the nomination, would be raked over the coals by the GOP. We all agree that's a given so mentioning Biden's particular soft points means nothing.

ETA: Covered better by wareyin