George Takei has come out

Orwell said:
Hardy har har. Is it just me, or does American's little joke sound a tad homophobic?
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OMG! I totally dated Tad Homophobic! He was always getting reverse gay bashed, too, because I'd introduce him around and he'd say "Hi, I'm Homophobic" and once a six-foot-five bodybuilding drag queen threw him face first into a disco ball. He wound up changing his name to Tad Openminded-Nonjudgmental.
 
TragicMonkey said:
OMG! I totally dated Tad Homophobic! He was always getting reverse gay bashed, too, because I'd introduce him around and he'd say "Hi, I'm Homophobic" and once a six-foot-five bodybuilding drag queen threw him face first into a disco ball. He wound up changing his name to Tad Openminded-Nonjudgmental.
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You go girl! :D
 
Mephisto said:
Okay, okay, you got me on that one. I'm sorry for my callous remarks. Personally, I've always like the Star Trek episodes that featured Takei, and I wasn't aware of his stage career. I'll admit to everyone that I was being a bit of a jerk there, and I certainly think that homophobia is a serious problem, but I stand by my assertion that any celebrity "coming out" doesn't always have changing the mind of homophobic fans in mind, and I'm wondering when straight stars with lagging PR coverage are going to start "coming out" just to get in the limelight again.

Gays are second-class citizens in the U.S. and I certainly wish Mr. Takei all the luck in the world, but I think his revelation will only serve to turn those homophobic fans against him rather than have them suddenly understand that gays are people too. It's a shame that, because of religion, some people have to live a hidden life. In a perfect world, "coming out" would be nothing more drastic than admitting you like Lima beans.
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Well, there's a tension here that is common to every social movement for acceptance, because the ultimate goal is a society where all of the tactics are very silly indeed.

What would you thing of a celebrity with blue eyes who has worn brown contacts all his life and who "came out" as having blue eyes all along. Pretty silly, wouldn't you think?

Ideally, that would be the case with sexual orientation. Or maybe not. But either sexual orientation is going to be an issue, or it isn't. If it's an issue, then well, some people are going to hold it as an issue. If it isn't, well, then it sometimes violates good taste to make it one.

It's ironic, though, because the Star Trek ideal has always been a society where such things do not matter, but only a couple of episodes have dealt with sexual orientation. In fandom, anyway, the ideal is pretty close to realization.

However, the fact that so many otherwise sane and intelligent people reacted with surprise may mean that sexual orientation is still taboo.
 
On an unrelated note;

Orwell, I recognize your title line. Where did you get it from, just out of curiousity?
 
epepke said:
What would you thing of a celebrity with blue eyes who has worn brown contacts all his life and who "came out" as having blue eyes all along. Pretty silly, wouldn't you think?
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I don't know. If the celebrity was especially famous for their blue eyes. Like Peter O'Toole. Or Elizabeth Taylor and her purple eyes. Or what if you found out that James Earl Jones's voice was actually done using a machine, and he actually has a quite squeaky voice? I could see that causing scandal. It wouldn't be that there is anything wrong with brown eyes or normal voices, it's the deception that would rankle.

It's ironic, though, because the Star Trek ideal has always been a society where such things do not matter, but only a couple of episodes have dealt with sexual orientation. In fandom, anyway, the ideal is pretty close to realization.
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I read something about that recently. Apparently more than one writer and more than one actor in various Star Trek series attempted to address the issue of sexual orientation. I mean, it is pretty ridiculous to see the future, with aliens and robots all over the place, and holograms with human rights, and yet no gay characters. But the execs always stomped on it, pretty hard, too. Jerri Ryan and Scott Bakula were supposedly particularly angry about it, Ryan because she wanted her character to try some experimentation (and think of the ratings boost that would have been!) and Bakula because he's done a lot of gay movies and stuff and was rather shocked when he heard all the back history of Star Trek frowning on the gay. So much so, that in the last series when rumors started up around one of the characters's possible homosexuality, the execs quickly wrote in some scenes where the character expressed plenty of heterosexual romantic feelings for the opposite gender.
 
epepke said:
It's ironic, though, because the Star Trek ideal has always been a society where such things do not matter, but only a couple of episodes have dealt with sexual orientation. In fandom, anyway, the ideal is pretty close to realization.

However, the fact that so many otherwise sane and intelligent people reacted with surprise may mean that sexual orientation is still taboo.
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epepke,

Your post was well written and well thought-out. I hope everyone here accepts my apology. My remarks were totally uncalled for, and I'm embarrassed that they stand to remind me of how ugly I can sometimes be.

I'm very much a supporter of gay rights (and human rights) and can appreciate being different in the modern world. It is a shame that sexual orientation is such a taboo in the 21st century, and I can only wonder if we could ever reach the ideals in Star Trek while clinging to ridiculous notions passed on through culture and religion.
 
TragicMonkey said:
I don't know. If the celebrity was especially famous for their blue eyes. Like Peter O'Toole. Or Elizabeth Taylor and her purple eyes. Or what if you found out that James Earl Jones's voice was actually done using a machine, and he actually has a quite squeaky voice? I could see that causing scandal. It wouldn't be that there is anything wrong with brown eyes or normal voices, it's the deception that would rankle.
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But that's not analogous. That would be like Harvey Fierstein coming out as heterosexual, or for that matter David Bowie (who did).

I read something about that recently. Apparently more than one writer and more than one actor in various Star Trek series attempted to address the issue of sexual orientation. I mean, it is pretty ridiculous to see the future, with aliens and robots all over the place, and holograms with human rights, and yet no gay characters.
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Even more to the point, there's sex between different species in Star Trek. Apart from a few instances (such as the bald-headed woman in Star Trek The Motion Sickness who was pansexual), there's not much sexuality in Star Trek.

To be fair, there aren't any overtly Muslim characters in Star Trek, and none of the doorways of quarters have a mezzuzah hanging on them either.
 
clarsct said:
On an unrelated note;

Orwell, I recognize your title line. Where did you get it from, just out of curiousity?
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You mean the Nattering Nabob of Negativism thing?

It's taken from something Spiro Agnew said about the press.
 
Mephisto said:
Your post was well written and well thought-out. I hope everyone here accepts my apology. My remarks were totally uncalled for, and I'm embarrassed that they stand to remind me of how ugly I can sometimes be.
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You flatter me too much and condemn yourself too harshly. That post was the work of a couple of minutes. As for the rest, we live in difficult times, and it can be difficult to figure out what is "appropriate" to say. In many places, sexual orientation is simply not an issue. In others, it is. It is where these arenas meet that there is friction.

I'm 44, which is pretty old. I've come to discover that people don't really get more conservative as they get older. What really happens is that their memories get longer. I remember when rock music was threatening to people who were then the age that I am now. I knew the world had changed when I heard "Barracuda" on the Lite Rock station being played in a shop. Similarly, I remember a time about fifteen years ago when one could not bring up the subject of putting baby-changing tables in men's restrooms without being descended upon by angry old-school feminists. But they've gotten older, and the baby-changing tables in men's restrooms do exist, without any serious damage to society.

It's a real danger for people to become so enmeshed in a cause that they become dependent upon the conditions that the cause was supposed to ameliorate. This is a form of what Nietzsche called ressentiment.
 
Orwell said:
You mean the Nattering Nabob of Negativism thing?

It's taken from something Spiro Agnew said about the press.
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AH.

I think I read it in a book, and I was curious.

Thanks.


As for George, I wish him well with it, but I have to admit my first reaction was along the lines of Mephisto's. "Yeah, so?"

I guess it just doesn't impact me. What someone does in their spare time is their own business, to my mind. I have difficulty seeing why people make such a big deal over it. So what? I remember when I expressed a like for the music of Elton John, one of the people(I wouldn't call him a friend, really) in my hometown said 'but dude, he's GAY'. I was like 'um...so? He still sings and plays the piano the same...'
I just didn't get why it was a big deal to him(Not Elton, the 'dude' from back home). Why would he even CARE what Mr. John does in his spare time?

The whole thing is rather confusing to me. Same with the 'gay marriage' non-issue. I call it a non-issue because that is exactly what it should be: a non-issue. If your private club decides they aren't going to recognize such based on a 3000 yr old book, then so be it, but for the love of Odin, what the hell's wrong with going to the courthouse and filing the papers?
What's wrong with allowing people the right to inherit property and get family medical benefits? Or to be able to file taxes the same way? What the merry motherf**k does this have to do with whatever your private invisible friend clubs believes?

Like I said, very confusing, from the outside looking in. I get the point that this makes a social statement that is probably a positive thing. I guess I just don't understand why so many other folks think it's ok to tell others how to live their lives.

Very confusing.

However, I am happy for George and his lover. It must have been a burden. I don't think people should feel they need to lie about themselves that way. I'm just not sure what to do about it. How do you reason with these 'Christian' Fundy yahoos?



Well, I rambled a bit, but these are the thoughts I've collected from lurking about here.
 
Just in: William Shatner has expressed his support for George.

Still, he says he always knew Takei was gay. He kept setting his phaser to "Fabulous!"

Okay, I'll go sit in the corner...
 
Everything American says sounds homophobic. Even when he says "gesundheit" (which he would probably never ever say because it would be, well, unamerican... But I digress), he sounds homophobic. And I think that's probably because he's a raging homophobe, I mean, he likes to use words like "fags" and "degenerates", and he's not even being ironic! I know, hard to believe, innit? ;)
 
TragicMonkey said:
Firstly, the man has had a stage career. Just because you aren't aware of what some actor from the sixties has been doing for the last forty years doesn't mean he was hibernating the whole time. The world doesn't stop just because you aren't looking at it.
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You forgot to mention that he was in the Green Berets with John Wayne.
 
epepke said:
To be fair, there aren't any overtly Muslim characters in Star Trek, and none of the doorways of quarters have a mezzuzah hanging on them either.
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There aren't any overtly Christian, Jewish or Buddhist characters, either. Religion does not play a large role in the Star Trek universe.

But if it's Arabs you're looking for, there's Dr.Bashir in Deep Space Nine.

There is one famous gay scene in Deep Space Nine, too. When Dax meets her wife from a previous, umm, life.
 
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