Grace Millane murder - do we believe the accused?
- Thread starter Rolfe
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Good result. In line with community expectations I would think.
Dragon
Graduate Poster
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I think it’s likely that he’s facing another trial for a similar offence which the judiciary and prosecutors don’t want to prejudice.
The difficulty with name suppression is it is taken very seriously in our crooked little country, while serious murders are not investigated.
The Swedish tourists, the Crewe husband and wife, Margaret Bell, The Bain family, the Sounds murders, the Lundy murders, the murder of Scott Guy, Mark Roderique, Susan Burdett, in all those cases the murderers roam free or are deceased and never spent one day in jail for those crimes except the killer of Susan Burdett by a police informant, after 27 years when the cops had nowhere left to hide. Not bad for a country of 4 million over 4 decades. The real killers are known in most of these.
But:
Thou shalt not breach name suppression of the man involved in this death by drunken misadventure as Leo Molloy has found.
His father may well be a high ranking police officer.
What annoys me about posts like this is your utter inability to recognise that you could just be wrong.
This verdict and sentence has been almost universally welcomed, yet you stubbornly insist, against the evidence, judgement, forensic science and a suppression order that largely worked that is was a drunken misadventure.
You will not change this behaviour, but I think it’s disgraceful. Disagree with the verdict by all means, but stop crap like the highlighted.
The finding was they were drunk and the death was not premeditated. There was absolutely no motive. No tears will be shed because everything after was the body of work of a thoroughly bad human being, but missing in the reasoning was reference to her known predilection for this type of stimulation and that tinder appears to match that way.
The villagers won the day, but the sentence was draconian and that is my view.
Goodness me, is that all you have? You realise that prosecution doesn’t have to provide, let alone prove, a motive, don’t you?
Use any term you want (but the correct medical term is stimulation - you'd realise that if you understood the mechanism of operation of the carotid sinus).
If it makes a difference to you, I'll happily employ the (incorrect) terms of obstruction. Or blocking. Or pressure. Because there's never been any actual empirical evidence found that any of those things applied to the carotid sinus will result in instantaneous death."
"instantaneous death inside the octagon when his opponent put him in a choke hold and stimulated/obstructed/blocked/put pressure upon his carotid sinuses."
Thanks for the confirmation, glad that you finally agree with Bernard Knight.
And it may happen up to a week later:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8635763
It's become a touchy topic in NZ. Any version of 'breath play', being spoken about reveals those that many maintain that it is no one else's business, shouldn't be mentioned and is not relevant to consideration in a case like the one we have discussed.
I would have thought it highly relevant in the interest of safety, skating on thin ice and so on. That, as in 'tinder' dating although it appears, and I'm no expert, that it is generally well accepted by those in the dating game.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8635763
It's become a touchy topic in NZ. Any version of 'breath play', being spoken about reveals those that many maintain that it is no one else's business, shouldn't be mentioned and is not relevant to consideration in a case like the one we have discussed.
I would have thought it highly relevant in the interest of safety, skating on thin ice and so on. That, as in 'tinder' dating although it appears, and I'm no expert, that it is generally well accepted by those in the dating game.
Yes it was covered near the outset.
Yet Samson keeps bringing it up. I wonder why....
Matthew Best
Penultimate Amazing
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-51939561
The killer of British backpacker Grace Millane has begun the process of appealing against his murder conviction and jail sentence, his barrister said.
Auckland-based Rachael Reed QC confirmed that an appeal had been filed in the New Zealand Court of Appeal.
The killer of British backpacker Grace Millane has begun the process of appealing against his murder conviction and jail sentence, his barrister said.
Auckland-based Rachael Reed QC confirmed that an appeal had been filed in the New Zealand Court of Appeal.
The sentence was clearly excessive and the verdict probably wrong.
He may have taken photos in anticipation of needing them to verify his narrative.
There are issues to appeal and I hope he gets a fair hearing.
Still at least the process was not profoundly corrupt as in Lundy and many others.
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Butter!
Rough Around the Edges
Disgusting.
You are hopeless. You seem like you can't recognize evil unless it comes from the prosecution/cops' side. No sentence is excessive for what this monster did. The verdict wasn't wrong.
Even if some slimy lawyer manages to get something changed on appeal (unlikely), it doesn't change the fact that the verdict wasn't wrong.
Butter!
Rough Around the Edges
I think this page was already posted to the thread earlier, but just to be sure - https://wecantconsenttothis.uk/
wasapi
Penultimate Amazing
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Long ago I gave up on Samson discussing crime. In his world there are no criminals, just people who are innocent and wrongly accused.
I restrict my interest to cases where I see a wrong verdict and this may be one of those but not necessarily. Your post feels like a personal attack.
In this case there is plenty of science showing a sudden death can occur. It is extremely rare for such a heavy sentence to be imposed where the victim was compliant at the outset, and there is no suggestion of premeditation. Maybe you have a parallel in mind.
LondonJohn
Penultimate Amazing
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But this is it: there's NOT "plenty of science showing a sudden death can occur" from what this man claims he did to Millane (i.e. manual choking). Heck, not even this man's own defence team (IIRC) tried to make the argument that Millane had died more-or-less instantaneously.
Instead, what all the reliable scientific evidence shows is that death from manual choking occurs only via two mechanisms: either a) constriction of one or both carotid arteries, causing starvation of oxygenated blood to the brain, leading to unconsciousness, coma, and death; or b) constriction of the trachea, causing insufficient (or no) air to get to the lungs, leading to asphyxiation and death. Mechanism (a) is relatively benign - the victim will cease struggling fairly quickly (sometimes a matter of seconds) as the brain responds to the sudden restriction or absence of oxygen by initiating unconsciousness; mechanism (b) is often violent and ugly, with the victim struggling often for well over a minute as they struggle to intake air. But - importantly - both mechanisms require well over a minimum of two minutes to cause death, and usually several minutes.
Put simply: this cannot have been an accidental death. If Millane had slipped into unconsciousness from constriction of her carotid artery/arteries, then - by both legal and ethical (and common-sense) definition - her consent immediately stopped at that point. And the man cannot have failed to notice that Millane had become unconscious: eyes closed, limp and unresponsive.
On top of all that, the entire purpose of these sexual breath-constriction "games" is to take the person to the point just before unconsciousness sets in, which is (apparently) the point at which maximum pleasure is derived. If the person falls into full unconsciousness, therefore, the "game" has necessarily gone too far. And what typically happens at that point is that the person doing the choking - having noticed that the person being choked has fallen unconscious - releases or relaxes the choke hold until the person regains consciousness. And then the process may be repeated. What the person doing the choking NEVER does is carry on with full pressure on the other person's neck for at least two, and as many as 6 or 7, minutes until the other person's brain has been so starved of oxygen that they die.
It's this man's right to apply to appeal both the verdict and the sentence. It's now up to the NZ Court of Appeal to adjudicate on whether he should be granted leave to appeal either or both of these things. I don't know what the man's defence team are arguing as grounds for appeal (verdict or sentence). One would hope the Court of Appeal will give proper consideration to his submission and return a fair and just adjudication as to whether or not he will be allowed to appeal.
Murder convicts have an automatic right to appeal here, we have worked through these issues and I certainly think the verdict may well be correct but not necessarily and I do not believe 17 years is just.
Normally that sentence applies where a similar US case would be death or LWOP
Normally that sentence applies where a similar US case would be death or LWOP