Cont: 2020 Democratic Candidates Tracker Part IV

[The_Animus]

Also I'm calling it now. Much to my dismay Trump will win in 2020. Anyone is free to do a one month avatar bet if you feel otherwise. First come first serve as only one bet will be taken.

 

[Stacyhs]

Also I'm calling it now. Much to my dismay Trump will win in 2020. Anyone is free to do a one month avatar bet if you feel otherwise. First come first serve as only one bet will be taken.

After 2016, I've learned never to try and guess what the American electorate, coupled with the EC, will do.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Also I'm calling it now. Much to my dismay Trump will win in 2020. Anyone is free to do a one month avatar bet if you feel otherwise. First come first serve as only one bet will be taken.

I would do a lesser bet that the election outcome won't be decided until after 2020.

 

[The_Animus]

After 2016, I've learned never to try and guess what the American electorate, coupled with the EC, will do.

Yeah I'm no psychic and I can certainly be wrong. But I feel certain enough that I'm willing to bet one months worth of avatar on it. I've just largely lost faith in the American populace in general to not be swayed by ******** and thus they will continue to shoot themselves in the foot

 

[theprestige]

Total crap marketing, letting the clip of her saying coal jobs would be gone without pointing out the next sentence was: "Which is why we need a program for retraining..."

Have there been any successful large-scale retraining programs, for the workforce of a dying industry?

When the longshore jobs were obsoleted by containerized shipping in the 70s, how many longshoremen were retrained into other jobs as good as the jobs they'd lost?

When steelwork and automaking left Detroit, how many Detroit steelworkers and automobile assembly line workers got retrained into jobs as good or better?

How active and effective were those workers' unions, in enabling and supporting the transition?

Not that it matters much now, but I suddenly realized I have no idea what kind of retraining program Hillary had planned for coal miners, nor whether it was based on similar plans from previous events of a similar nature.

 

[theprestige]

No one heard anything else because the GOP made a soundbite out of that half of what she said and she did nothing to counter the sound bite.

Was it accurate, though? Did she really say, "we're going to put a lot of coal miners and coal companies out of business"?

Maybe she didn't counter the sound bite because she didn't want to dilute her message and depress progressive turnout in swing states. Maybe the voters she was actually talking to wanted to hear that she planned to put coal miners out of work.

 

[Brainster]

Have there been any successful large-scale retraining programs, for the workforce of a dying industry?

When the longshore jobs were obsoleted by containerized shipping in the 70s, how many longshoremen were retrained into other jobs as good as the jobs they'd lost?

When steelwork and automaking left Detroit, how many Detroit steelworkers and automobile assembly line workers got retrained into jobs as good or better?

How active and effective were those workers' unions, in enabling and supporting the transition?

Not that it matters much now, but I suddenly realized I have no idea what kind of retraining program Hillary had planned for coal miners, nor whether it was based on similar plans from previous events of a similar nature.

Most"retraining" programs are based on an extended time on the dole with community college courses as the stick.

 

[Delphic Oracle]

Most"retraining" programs are based on an extended time on the dole with community college courses as the stick.

A lot of times the details are light in the actual bill that gets written.

SOP seems to be block grants to state and local governments (local solutions for local variations of the problems created). Natually this gets quickly folded into the general fund and since these things tend to happen in an economic downturn, we apply the proven wisdom (*cough*) of tax cuts for "job creators" and fiscal austerity/reduction of services.

Maybe the first half a dozen times this promise was made it was well-intended. But certainly during the latter half of my life thus far, anyone who says this goes into my list of people who are full of **** and they know it.

 

[dudalb]

Yeah I'm no psychic and I can certainly be wrong. But I feel certain enough that I'm willing to bet one months worth of avatar on it. I've just largely lost faith in the American populace in general to not be swayed by ******** and thus they will continue to shoot themselves in the foot

Interesting how the Brenie Bors have turned on the American people since it became clear that Bernie would not get the nomination. They sound like an Inner Party member talking about the Proles in Orwell's "1984".

 

[Delphic Oracle]

Interesting how the Brenie Bors have turned on the American people since it became clear that Bernie would not get the nomination. They sound like an Inner Party member talking about the Proles in Orwell's "1984".

Or maybe it is a single poster on an obscure forum just voicing a lone opinion.

 

[Trebuchet]

Also I'm calling it now. Much to my dismay Trump will win in 2020. Anyone is free to do a one month avatar bet if you feel otherwise. First come first serve as only one bet will be taken.

I started a thread saying that three weeks ago. So not betting with you!

 

[dudalb]

I started a thread saying that three weeks ago. So not betting with you!

I think the Corona virus is chainging everything..and not in Trump's favor.

 

[Aridas]

I think the Corona virus is chainging everything..and not in Trump's favor.

Assuming the likely scenario that it's going to get much worse, very soon, yeah.

 

[Aridas]

And... Biden's reaching out to Bernie supporters more.

Bernie has put forward a plan that would make public colleges and universities free for families whose income is below $125,000. It's a good idea, and after consideration, I am proud to add it to my platform.

And the reaction? Seems to be mostly calling BS on that claim. What Biden is adopting seems to be more like what Buttigieg and Hillary put forth. Bernie's is free for ALL.

It's still a step in the left direction, though.

 

[Delvo]

More important than whether it's more like Bernie's or someone else's, there's the fact that he doesn't mean it.

 

[Bob001]

....
Maybe the first half a dozen times this promise was made it was well-intended. But certainly during the latter half of my life thus far, anyone who says this goes into my list of people who are full of **** and they know it.

But it's not like all WVa coal miners (or auto workers or steel workers etc.) are all going to happily enter some other prosperous industry together. Extended benefits and classroom education allow each worker a chance to find something that best suits him. It's up to him to make the most of it. Maybe they should be more generous, but the fact that somebody went to work in the mines or the mills at age 18 because it was the best choice he had then doesn't mean the society owes him a lifetime of great pay and union perks. Why is he entitled to more help than anyone else who's laid off in a changing economy?

And Clinton did have a plan.

Hillary Clinton has a $30 billion, 4,300-word plan to retrain coal workers that covers everything from education and infrastructure to tax credits and school funding.
....
“The Clinton plan is consistent in what we need to do and is in keeping with what other countries around the world are doing,” Edward Cameron, a policy lead at the nonprofit corporate environmental coalition We Mean Business, told HuffPost. “Even as we transition away from coal, we need to protect and safeguard coal communities by giving them different types of livelihood options than before.”

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-clinton-coal_n_57310338e4b016f37896bf10

 

[Bob001]

I would do a lesser bet that the election outcome won't be decided until after 2020.

Do you mean there will be recounts in critical states, or it goes into the House, or what?

 

[Delphic Oracle]

But it's not like all WVa coal miners (or auto workers or steel workers etc.) are all going to happily enter some other prosperous industry together. Extended benefits and classroom education allow each worker a chance to find something that best suits him. It's up to him to make the most of it. Maybe they should be more generous, but the fact that somebody went to work in the mines or the mills at age 18 because it was the best choice he had then doesn't mean the society owes him a lifetime of great pay and union perks. Why is he entitled to more help than anyone else who's laid off in a changing economy?



And Clinton did have a plan.



https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-clinton-coal_n_57310338e4b016f37896bf10

I'm not knocking the plans themselves.

I don't believe they will see the light of day after bouncing around several branches of several layers of government.

 

[Bob001]

Will a Medicare-for-All plan or something similar start to look better and better to more and more people as we worry about how we may need to pay for covid testing and treatment? Discuss.

 

[Aridas]

More important than whether it's more like Bernie's or someone else's, there's the fact that he doesn't mean it.

With things like that... it's not so much whether HE means it, honestly, so much as how much of a political push in and at Congress there is to actually make it happen. The President has a bully pulpit and some negotiating power, but it's the legislature that needs to be the ones who make it happen. That he's adopting it brings it more front and center, though, and means that he'll probably push it to some extent as part of a campaign promise, which is something of cynical value, but certainly not a guarantee.