The Trump Presidency: Part 20

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Safe-Keeper said:
Along with "he's got skilled advisors around him, it'll be okay" and other desperate wishful thinking.

[godwin]On a more somber note, I'm reading How Democracy Dies, and apparently this is exactly how the powers that be in Germany regarded Hitler. "Let's get this outsider into office, the rubes will be happy to have one of their own in power, and we'll be able to play him like a fiddle!" I don't want to spoil it for those who haven't read the book, but suffice to say it didn't quite work out that way.[/godwin]
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In short, you're seeing a bit more about why the alarm bell comparisons to Hitler's Germany have been ringing so loudly and constantly?

Our institutions ARE much stronger than theirs were and Trump is not quite Hitler. The main information spreading outlets also aren't under such unified control, too. Still, the events that have been unfolding here have been far, far too similar to the ones that were happening then, albeit a little slower. Our institutions are buying us time, but how much we have left is distinctly uncertain as the constant sabotage is wearing away at them.
 
Safe-Keeper said:
...[godwin]On a more somber note, I'm reading How Democracy Dies, and apparently this is exactly how the powers that be in Germany regarded Hitler. "Let's get this outsider into office, the rubes will be happy to have one of their own in power, and we'll be able to play him like a fiddle!"...[/godwin]
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Aridas said:
...Our institutions ARE much stronger than theirs were and Trump is not quite Hitler...the constant sabotage is wearing away at them.
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Agree as to the danger 100%. I think it's only fair to point out though, if you go back to the spring and summer of 2016, a lot of people in the Republican Party were resisting Trump mightily. Below are quotes from a May 2016 BBC news article.
"If we nominate Trump, we will get destroyed... and we will deserve it," South Carolina Senator Lindsay Graham said.

Ted Cruz attacked the billionaire businessman as a "pathological liar" and "serial philanderer".

A senior adviser for Jeb Bush merely laughed when the New York Times asked whether the former Florida Governor would consider being Mr Trump's running mate.

Ed Goeas, an adviser to Scott Walker also ruled out the Wisconsin governor. "Scott Walker has a visceral negative reaction to Trump's character," Mr Goeas told the Times. Link
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newyorkguy said:
Agree as to the danger 100%. I think it's only fair to point out though, if you go back to the spring and summer of 2016, a lot of people in the Republican Party were resisting Trump mightily. Below are quotes from a May 2016 BBC news article.
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All those quotes from Goopers who early on recognized Trump for the vile POS he is, but who later prostrated themselves before him as servile, simpering toadies, reveals the suspect character of too many who seek power.

It all makes me think that it might be better to install into high office some random, protesting citizen who thinks he would be unsuited to the task. We would have a better than even chance of getting a person possessing at least a quorum of the more acceptable/admirable human traits, and maybe some shred of honor.

I feel that ambition should almost be a disqualifying characteristic. Empathy, that foundation of all the better human characteristics, is too easily subsumed in those who lust for power.
 
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Aridas said:
In short, you're seeing a bit more about why the alarm bell comparisons to Hitler's Germany have been ringing so loudly and constantly?

Our institutions ARE much stronger than theirs were and Trump is not quite Hitler. The main information spreading outlets also aren't under such unified control, too. Still, the events that have been unfolding here have been far, far too similar to the ones that were happening then, albeit a little slower. Our institutions are buying us time, but how much we have left is distinctly uncertain as the constant sabotage is wearing away at them.
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Trump is too stupid to get as far as Hitler did. The next demagogue might not be as stupid.
 
Lurch said:
All those quotes from Goopers who early on recognized Trump for the vile POS he is, but who later prostrated themselves before him as servile, simpering toadies, reveals the suspect character of too many who seek power.

It all makes me think that it might be better to install into high office some random, protesting citizen who thinks he would be unsuited to the task. We would have a better than even chance of getting a person possessing at least a quorum of the more acceptable/admirable human traits, and maybe some shred of honor.

I feel that ambition should almost be a disqualifying characteristic. Empathy, that foundation of all the better human characteristics, is too easily subsumed in those who lust for power.
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This is why Gerald Ford is my favorite president. He was just a guy.
 
Minoosh said:
This is why Gerald Ford is my favorite president. He was just a guy.
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He was a Michigan football star, Yale Law grad, WWII combat vet, and a congressman for 25 years, ending as Minority Leader. Hardly "just a guy." The real problem is that voters pretend that the most important and powerful public official in the world should be "just a guy." That image helped elect Trump, who is really about as far from "just a guy" as anyone could imagine.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Ford
 
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Lurch said:
All those quotes from Goopers who early on recognized Trump for the vile POS he is, but who later prostrated themselves before him as servile, simpering toadies, reveals the suspect character of too many who seek power.

It all makes me think that it might be better to install into high office some random, protesting citizen who thinks he would be unsuited to the task. We would have a better than even chance of getting a person possessing at least a quorum of the more acceptable/admirable human traits, and maybe some shred of honor.

I feel that ambition should almost be a disqualifying characteristic. Empathy, that foundation of all the better human characteristics, is too easily subsumed in those who lust for power.
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I’ve heard it said that it takes a very special type of psychosis to wake up and say “I know what’s wrong with this country. What’s wrong with this country is that I’m not running it.”
 
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Bob001 said:
He was a Michigan football star, Yale Law grad, WWII combat vet, and a congressman for 25 years, ending as Minority Leader. Hardly "just a guy." The real problem is that voters pretend that the most important and powerful public official in the world should be "just a guy." That image helped elect Trump, who is really about as far from "just a guy" as anyone could imagine.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Ford
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What was Lyndon's line on Gerald Ford? Played too much football without a helmet?

LBJ was more "just a guy" than Ford or Trump could ever hope to be. Went to SW Texas Teachers College. Worked as a day laborer and taught high school. He use to hold his beagle by its floppy ears and even showed his gall bladder surgical scar to reporters on TV. I doubt we have ever had a more effective President working Congress to get major legislation passed.

If it wasn't for the Vietnam War, he would easily be my favorite President.
 
Stacyhs said:
Married 3 times. So much for the "sanctimony of marriage".

I'm an atheist and I've been married once...for almost 38 years.
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Not just married three times but a serial philanderer cheating repeatedly on all his wives.
 
shemp said:
Trump is too stupid to get as far as Hitler did. The next demagogue might not be as stupid.
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...Honestly, it's worth remembering that Hitler's government was pretty much an ever worsening madness and laughingstock to the rest of the world and at his rallies, he did much the same as Trump does at Trump's rallies.

But then, to borrow from Newsweek for convenience -

So it's worth remembering that Hitler was actually an incompetent, lazy egomaniac and his government was an absolute clown show.

In fact, this may even have helped his rise to power, as he was consistently underestimated by the German elite. Before he became chancellor, many of his opponents had dismissed him as a joke for his crude speeches and tacky rallies. Even after elections had made the Nazis the largest party in the Reichstag, people still kept thinking that Hitler was an easy mark, a blustering idiot who could easily be controlled by smart people.

Why did the elites of Germany so consistently underestimate Hitler? Possibly because they weren't actually wrong in their assessment of his competency—they just failed to realise that this wasn't enough to stand in the way of his ambition. As it would turn out, Hitler was really bad at running a government. As his own press chief Otto Dietrich later wrote in his memoir The Hitler I Knew, "In the twelve years of his rule in Germany Hitler produced the biggest confusion in government that has ever existed in a civilized state."

His government was constantly in chaos, with officials having no idea what he wanted them to do, and nobody was entirely clear who was actually in charge of what. He procrastinated wildly when asked to make difficult decisions, and would often end up relying on gut feeling, leaving even close allies in the dark about his plans. His "unreliability had those who worked with him pulling out their hair," as his confidant Ernst Hanfstaengl later wrote in his memoir Zwischen Weißem und Braunem Haus. This meant that rather than carrying out the duties of state, they spent most of their time in-fighting and back-stabbing each other in an attempt to either win his approval or avoid his attention altogether, depending on what mood he was in that day.

There's a bit of an argument among historians about whether this was a deliberate ploy on Hitler's part to get his own way, or whether he was just really, really bad at being in charge of stuff. Dietrich himself came down on the side of it being a cunning tactic to sow division and chaos—and it's undeniable that he was very effective at that. But when you look at Hitler's personal habits, it's hard to shake the feeling that it was just a natural result of putting a workshy narcissist in charge of a country.
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The too stupid argument just doesn't hold up all that well. Trump might actually be MORE competent than Hitler, potentially, hard to grasp as it may seem. Going further -

Hitler was incredibly lazy. According to his aide Fritz Wiedemann, even when he was in Berlin he wouldn't get out of bed until after 11 a.m., and wouldn't do much before lunch other than read what the newspapers had to say about him, the press cuttings being dutifully delivered to him by Dietrich.

He was obsessed with the media and celebrity, and often seems to have viewed himself through that lens. He once described himself as "the greatest actor in Europe," and wrote to a friend, "I believe my life is the greatest novel in world history." In many of his personal habits he came across as strange or even childish—he would have regular naps during the day, he would bite his fingernails at the dinner table, and he had a remarkably sweet tooth that led him to eat "prodigious amounts of cake" and "put so many lumps of sugar in his cup that there was hardly any room for the tea."

He was deeply insecure about his own lack of knowledge, preferring to either ignore information that contradicted his preconceptions, or to lash out at the expertise of others. He hated being laughed at, but enjoyed it when other people were the butt of the joke (he would perform mocking impressions of people he disliked). But he also craved the approval of those he disdained, and his mood would quickly improve if a newspaper wrote something complimentary about him.

Little of this was especially secret or unknown at the time. It's why so many people failed to take Hitler seriously until it was too late, dismissing him as merely a "half-mad rascal" or a "man with a beery vocal organ." In a sense, they weren't wrong. In another, much more important sense, they were as wrong as it's possible to get.

Hitler's personal failings didn't stop him having an uncanny instinct for political rhetoric that would gain mass appeal, and it turns out you don't actually need to have a particularly competent or functional government to do terrible things.
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Sound familiar? Yeah. Intelligence isn't so required to get horrible things done. Again, Trump is not Hitler... but they are waaaaay too similar for comfort and are taking the countries that they lead on remarkably similar paths. Luckily, the Proud Boys and the like aren't yet up to snuff as Republican Party military, yet, I think, much as there have been far too many in the way of Boogaloo supporters who seem to want to be exactly that.
 
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Aridas said:
...Honestly, it's worth remembering that Hitler's government was pretty much an ever worsening madness and laughingstock to the rest of the world and at his rallies, he did much the same as Trump does at Trump's rallies.

But then, to borrow from Newsweek for convenience -



The too stupid argument just doesn't hold up all that well. Trump might actually be MORE competent than Hitler, potentially, hard to grasp as it may seem. Going further -



Sound familiar? Yeah. Intelligence isn't so required to get horrible things done. Again, Trump is not Hitler... but they are waaaaay too similar for comfort and are taking the countries that they lead on remarkably similar paths. Luckily, the Proud Boys and the like aren't yet up to snuff as Republican Party military, yet, I think, much as there have been far too many in the way of Boogaloo supporters who seem to want to be exactly that.
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Scary, innit?
 
Bob001 said:
He was a Michigan football star, Yale Law grad, WWII combat vet, and a congressman for 25 years, ending as Minority Leader. Hardly "just a guy." The real problem is that voters pretend that the most important and powerful public official in the world should be "just a guy." That image helped elect Trump, who is really about as far from "just a guy" as anyone could imagine.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Ford
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Yeah this is the one thing more than anything else I don't get, how could Trump ever have been considered "just a guy" and "antiestablishment" he is 100% one of the USA aristocratics, his whole public image has been based on not being "just a guy". Still find it astonishing.
 
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