Biden for President?

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Delphic Oracle said:
Lots of focus on "gaffes" and handwaving them away as perhaps even part of his folksy charm.

But there's tales made up out of whole cloth (arrested in S.A. trying to see Mandela) and innumerable statements where he shows his contempt for progressive values.

Dementia would almost seem to be the less concerning reason to explain those, do you still want to back away from that explanation for such cases?
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Sanders has started to go on the attack over those things. Over the last couple of days he's been pointing out that Biden voted against allowing gay people to openly serve in the military and for cutting social security, while Sanders voted the opposite.

Speaking as an outsider, I think Sanders is the better candidate in terms of policy, history, and integrity. I think Biden looks more likely to win the primaries, but would be worse for the country if elected president.

I'm not sure which would be more likely to beat Trump in an election. It's a fact that young people haven't been voting in the primaries, which could be indicative that they wouldn't vote in the election, which would be bad for Sanders. But, then, perhaps that's more a case of not truly understanding the importance of the primaries and they would turn out for the election after all. I'd need to see some historical data to form an opinion.

I tend to think that if Sanders can get the youth motivated, then he potentially could beat Trump. I think that Biden is more vulnerable to Trump's attacks, and I don't see people getting enthusiastic about him. He doesn't seem to inspire passion in people. I think Biden could be another Hillary Clinton.
 
d4m10n said:
Which progressive policies did Obama push forward, thereby distinguishing him from the mainstream liberalism of Clinton and/or Biden?
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"Change you can believe in". Remember that? The full (secret) slogan was "Change you can believe in if you're gullible". I think he won a price for that.

But of course Zig is right. Obama didn't run as a centrist. He ran as the hopey changey guy. He wasn't a centrist candidate, he just turned out to be a centrist president.
 
Originally Posted by Stacyhs
Yeah, Melania learned that the hard way.
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TragicMonkey said:
I expect this is supposed to be a "what aboutism" but it doesn't really work as their careers and standing are so different. She married a guy nobody ever thought would hold an elected position. Biden's a career politician who's held office and run for office for what, fifty years now? He should definitely be held to a much higher standard. I'm not sure her English is ever good enough to write a speech. As much as I detest our mad king and have contempt for our foreign queen I think her cribbing a speech is small potatoes in the grander scheme. Plagiarism speaks to character and we already know her character: golddigger. She's not running for office, so what does she matter?

Biden, however, is running for office and he's got a track record of foolishly obvious dishonesty demonstrated in repeated incidents of plagiarism. That's much more damning.
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No, not at all. It was in response to your comment about how hard it is to get away with plagiarism in this day and age of Google. I was agreeing with you.
 
d4m10n said:
1992? 1996? 2008? 2012?
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Yes, campaign slogans like "A vote for me is a vote for change!" and then "Hope & change!" plus even "My Presidency will be remembered as the time when everything in the whole world started getting better because of all my change!" can work, even when they come from someone who won't end up following through on them.

This is evidence that Biden could win the general election if he were to campaign on the same pretense at progressiveness that those guys did. But he isn't. His pretense at being like Bernie is limited to making up stories for his past, not campaigning as if he were progressive now.

Squeegee Beckenheim said:
Sanders has started to go on the attack over those things. Over the last couple of days he's been pointing out that Biden voted against allowing gay people to openly serve in the military and for cutting social security, while Sanders voted the opposite.
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He should have been more attacky all along. He'd be in a better position now if he had. (Although, as always for him, his actual current position is better than it's generally presented; it's about a tie being treated as an utterly hopeless loss already, whereas if he were more willing to say bad stuff about his opponents instead of just talking about good stuff he wants to do, he'd be solidly ahead and the general story being told about it would be that it's approximately a tie.)

Squeegee Beckenheim said:
Speaking as an outsider, I think Sanders is the better candidate in terms of policy, history, and integrity. I think Biden looks more likely to win the primaries, but would be worse for the country if elected president.
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Even people voting for Biden agree. They've never produced a single solitary argument for him on the issues, just the electability myth that's precisely the opposite of reality, while all of the polls on issues consistently show much more support for Bernie-like positions among all Democrats (and often all Americans), not just Bernie's. Biden just doesn't have actual support even among his own supporters.

Squeegee Beckenheim said:
I'm not sure which would be more likely to beat Trump in an election. It's a fact that young people haven't been voting in the primaries, which could be indicative that they wouldn't vote in the election, which would be bad for Sanders. But, then, perhaps that's more a case of not truly understanding the importance of the primaries and they would turn out for the election after all. I'd need to see some historical data to form an opinion.
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The idea that Bernie would depend on some wildly unprecedented wave of millions upon millions of roughly-20-year-old voters is a myth cooked up by his opponents as a straw man. Democrats have won Presidential elections before (and lost by quite close margins, not huge blowouts) without anything completely off-the-wall happening. And they've done it with voters who wanted policies like Bernie's and candidates who campaigned like they were going to push for such policies.
 
Childlike Empress said:
I don't care behind which junk you're trying to hide your dishonesty.
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Evasion noted.

Delvo said:
Yes, campaign slogans like "A vote for me is a vote for change!" and then "Hope & change!" plus even "My Presidency will be remembered as the time when everything in the whole world started getting better because of all my change!" can work...
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Are those all actual quotes?
 
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Stacyhs said:
That is quite the leap to take from my post. Do you think it's a bad thing for a POTUS to listen to his advisers?
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Not at all. It is essential. But they should be giving advice to someone with vision and wit. America shouldn’t chose a president who is showing disturbing signs of mental decline.
 
Sideroxylon said:
Not at all. It is essential. But they should be giving advice to someone with vision and wit. America shouldn’t chose a president who is showing disturbing signs of mental decline.
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Oh yes, we have Donald *****' Trump. And then there is a non-Trump, but not nearly perfect. I foresee an endless number of posts like these if Biden is selected. As he has told several untruths and has had moments of some confusion. And these things are supposed to count as Biden is a Democrat. For sure as hell, they don't seem to matter the slightest bit to Republicans when it's about Trump - and to a far higher degree. In a perfect world, surely, there would be a combination of Abraham Lincoln and Winston Churchill running against this despicable, corrupt person, but now it might just be Joe Biden. So go Joe, give them hell fgs.
 
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Biden's speech at his St. Louis rally was 7 minutes.

He still managed to get in "I'm an Obiden-Bama Democrat" and slipping Kamala's name in with Beto, Amy, and Pete, possibly leaking her endorsement before it is official.
 
llwyd said:
Oh yes, we have Donald *****' Trump. And then there is a non-Trump, but not nearly perfect. I foresee an endless number of posts like these if Biden is selected. As he has told several untruths and has had moments of some confusion. And these things are supposed to count as Biden is a Democrat. For sure as hell, they don't seem to matter the slightest bit to Republicans when it's about Trump - and to a far higher degree. In a perfect world, surely, there would be a combination of Abraham Lincoln and Winston Churchill running against this despicable, corrupt person, but now it might just be Joe Biden. So go Joe, give them hell fgs.
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We keep being told that Biden has dementia/is in mental decline blah, blah, blah. What do they present as evidence? The same type of things he's been doing for decades.
Gaffes have always been part of Biden’s public image, well before this latest presidential run. His unscripted nature is a big part of his political persona, and he’s had a habit of making news for a slip of the tongue in years past.
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(Vox)

When Biden confused Burlington, Iowa, with Burlington, Vt. last summer, that must be a sign of dementia. But Trump did a similar thing when he mixed up Concord, NH with Concord, MA in February. When Trump commented on the shootings in Toledo, OH he confused that city with Dayton. Surely these gaffes must be a sign that Trump is also suffering from dementia?

Is Biden's age of concern? Yes. So is Sanders' who is even older. So is Trump's. I certainly would have preferred a younger candidate. But it's either going to be Biden or Sanders vs Trump and spreading this allegation about Biden having dementia based on nothing more than him doing what he's always done is not going to help get rid of Trump. It's just counterproductive.
 
Stacyhs said:
We keep being told that Biden has dementia/is in mental decline blah, blah, blah. What do they present as evidence? The same type of things he's been doing for decades.

(Vox)



When Biden confused Burlington, Iowa, with Burlington, Vt. last summer, that must be a sign of dementia. But Trump did a similar thing when he mixed up Concord, NH with Concord, MA in February. When Trump commented on the shootings in Toledo, OH he confused that city with Dayton. Surely these gaffes must be a sign that Trump is also suffering from dementia?



Is Biden's age of concern? Yes. So is Sanders' who is even older. So is Trump's. I certainly would have preferred a younger candidate. But it's either going to be Biden or Sanders vs Trump and spreading this allegation about Biden having dementia based on nothing more than him doing what he's always done is not going to help get rid of Trump. It's just counterproductive.
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Hypocrisy by some partisan figures in regards to this claim don't actually have anything to do with the veracity of the claim.

"But Trump" simply can't be the answer to all criticism.

Either that or we don't really have a problem with whataboutisms and are being hypocrites ourselves.
 
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