Should we fear Bernie?

[erlando]

How do middle class in scandinavia feel about that tax rate?

Pretty good actually.

I like that I won't have any economical worries if I should get sick. I like that I don't have to set a lot of money aside to send my kids to university. I like that the society I live in cares about the people less fortunate than me.

It's not a perfect system. It can be improved but that is a constant work in progress.

 

[dann]

This is not quite accurate, at least not for Denmark.

The tax rate is progressive. You don't pay 52% of all your income. You pay 52% of your income past $66.000.

The average tax rate across all tax payers is around 34%.

Yes there's a 25% VAT. But at least the price on the item are the price you pay at the till...

The lies/ignorance about taxes in Denmark were exploded when Trish Regan made her Denmark = Venezuela show on Fox.

Sorry but I want Bernie to sound like a more viable option to be President.

No, you don't.

 

[erlando]

The lies/ignorance about taxes in Denmark were exploded when Trish Regan made her Denmark = Venezuela show on Fox.

At least 54% was fairly accurate as to the percentage of the top tax bracket. I've heard as much as 71%...

 

[dann]

I think it's 56% - but only of the amount that you earn above DKR 531,000 (approximately US-$ 80,000).
However, if you consider the VAT and other things (the tax on cars, and the wealthier you are, the likelier it is that you buy expensive cars), it may all add up to 71% for some people. But then again, rich people have financial advisers who are good at finding the loopholes. And not even billionaires have to pay for healthcare or for their children's education - ordinary schools, high schools and universities. They may send their children to private schools - they often do - but even private schools are cheap because they are also subsidized by the state (i.e. taxes).

I was close a couple of times myself but never actually had to pay the top tax.

 

[Delvo]

I like seeing these crazy "but the people in the countries where it's just plain better from every angle don't really like it" pleas of desperate nonsense. When you're so bereft of actual arguments for your position that you feel compelled to trot out such utterly surreal insanity as that, you know you're on the losing side.

 

[lobosrul5]

This is not quite accurate, at least not for Denmark.

The tax rate is progressive. You don't pay 52% of all your income. You pay 52% of your income past $66.000.

The average tax rate across all tax payers is around 34%.

Yes there's a 25% VAT. But at least the price on the item are the price you pay at the till...

What are property taxes like in Denmark? I've heard the USA is like a crazy outlier in that respect. While other countries have much higher VAT, our property taxes are much higher, in most states at least.

If your self employed in the USA and make around 66k, your effective income tax rate, for that last dollar, would hit around 47%* in Oregon, the state with the highest state income tax. So... move to Texas because it has no income tax. Your rate is 37%. But, own a fairly modest $200k house, you'll pay around $3700 in property tax a year. So at 66k your effective tax rate is about 43%. Oh, and you need to come up with around $500 a month for health insurance, and face up to around 6 or 7k a year if you max our your deductible. And its not like there is no VAT, its around 10% depending on what county your in, in Texas.

We don't come out that far ahead once you put all the factors into place.

*15.6% self employment tax, 22% federal, 9% state.

 

[JoeMorgue]

I like seeing these crazy "but the people in the countries where it's just plain better from every angle don't really like it" pleas of desperate nonsense. When you're so bereft of actual arguments for your position that you feel compelled to trot out such utterly surreal insanity as that, you know you're on the losing side.

"Well Americans are just backward and worse people" gets trotted out against us enough. Fail to see why it's an issue when we use it as a defense.

I mean we could just remember that if countries didn't have fundamentally different philosophies, values, and priorites there would be different countries, but that's just crazy talk.

 

[Baylor]

"Well Americans are just backward and worse people" gets trotted out against us enough. Fail to see why it's an issue when we use it as a defense.

I mean we could just remember that if countries didn't have fundamentally different philosophies, values, and priorites there would be different countries, but that's just crazy talk.

Or simply people. It's people that make up countries. "Philosophies, values, priorities" are just expressions of the genes, i.e. people that make up countries.

That's what all this anti-American sentiment is about. The people of America are nothing like the people Europe, or even the people of America 50 years ago. It's not the "philosophies, values, and priorities" this "not racist" forum has a problem with, it's the people.

 

[erlando]

What are property taxes like in Denmark? I've heard the USA is like a crazy outlier in that respect. While other countries have much higher VAT, our property taxes are much higher, in most states at least.

..snip..
But, own a fairly modest $200k house, you'll pay around $3700 in property tax a year.
..snip..

I own a $475k house. I pay about $3000 a year in property tax.

 

[TragicMonkey]

I own a $475k house. I pay about $3000 a year in property tax.

I don't own a house but I pay property tax on my car. The state assesses my car as being worth $400 total so it's not a very big tax. What hurts is their low opinion of my 2001 economy car. It's easily worth $450! And it rides as gracefully as a $500 car!

 

[dudalb]

"Well Americans are just backward and worse people" gets trotted out against us enough. Fail to see why it's an issue when we use it as a defense.

I mean we could just remember that if countries didn't have fundamentally different philosophies, values, and priorites there would be different countries, but that's just crazy talk.

Transalates to "Americans are not like Europeans", frankly.

I think American Exceptinonalism is a bunch of garbage, but that America is different...that I will buy.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Transalates to "Americans are not like Europeans", frankly.

I think American Exceptinonalism is a bunch of garbage, but that America is different...that I will buy.

American Exceptionalism is absolutely real because, like the deity, it's self-causing: Americans are the unique exception to the universal disbelief in American Exceptionalism. We're a whole different level of special right there. Of course, when we say "special"...

 

[JoeMorgue]

Transalates to "Americans are not like Europeans", frankly.

And "Buuuut it works in Europe" is the answer to everything.

It has reached the point with some extreme subcultures within progressivism that I'm sort of lost as to what about America they are bothering to try and save and honestly do want to ask them why they don't just move to Europe, not as a moralistic judgement just because I just don't functionally see why that isn't easier for them.

 

[xjx388]

I got into a discussion with the kids last night about voting today. The three of them (son 25, daughter 30 and SIL 35) are Bernie supporters. They bring up the “look at how well these policies work in Europe” argument all the time. They especially talk about the Nordic countries.

I remind them that those countries are very different historically, culturally, demographically and economically. Last night, I asked them what specifically makes them think that what works there will work here. They didn’t really have a good response to that question. Somewhere along the lines of, “America is the richest country in the world, why couldn’t it work here?”

I’ll admit to being a little disappointed that my kids have apparently not thought out their position very well. I know they sincerely want things to be better and they think Bernie will put us on that path. They don’t want to worry about heathcare, paying for their kids college, etc; they want a better future and I get that. I just think they are being too idealistic wanting Change Now! rather than thinking about ways to make that happen that will work for America and will be accepted by Americans with all our uh...quirks.

 

[theprestige]

Most days I'm kinda surprised democracy works better in America than it does in Russia.

But it does, in fact, work way better here. I'm glad Nordland is doing even better than that.

 

[Hercules56]

Bernie's platform mandates ALL publicly trades companies and companies with $100 million or more in their balance sheets to do the following:

-give 20% of all stock shares to workers.

-45% of all board members must be elected by the workers.

-yearly diversity report to make sure women, minorities, gays, handicapped have more representation on corporate boards.




sorry, but this isn't Capitalism. It's pure Socialism.

 

[Steve]

Sorry but I want Bernie to sound like a more viable option to be President.

Why do you claim to want that?

 

[uke2se]

Bernie's platform mandates ALL publicly trades companies and companies with $100 million or more in their balance sheets to do the following:

-give 20% of all stock shares to workers.

-45% of all board members must be elected by the workers.

-yearly diversity report to make sure women, minorities, gays, handicapped have more representation on corporate boards.




sorry, but this isn't Capitalism. It's pure Socialism.

Nope, pure socialism would be 100 % in all categories. What you've got there is about 20 % socialism and 80 % capitalism.

 

[Puppycow]

Bernie's platform mandates ALL publicly trades companies and companies with $100 million or more in their balance sheets to do the following:

-give 20% of all stock shares to workers.

-45% of all board members must be elected by the workers.

-yearly diversity report to make sure women, minorities, gays, handicapped have more representation on corporate boards.




sorry, but this isn't Capitalism. It's pure Socialism.

It won't actually happen. Both houses of congress would have to pass something like that, and I don't see it happening.

 

[erlando]

Bernie's platform mandates ALL publicly trades companies and companies with $100 million or more in their balance sheets to do the following:

-give 20% of all stock shares to workers.

-45% of all board members must be elected by the workers.

-yearly diversity report to make sure women, minorities, gays, handicapped have more representation on corporate boards.




sorry, but this isn't Capitalism. It's pure Socialism.

Only one of the points on your list can be said to have anything to do with socialism. Neither worker elected board members or diversity ensuring measures qualify.

I also suspect "give" is more like "offer".

"Pure socialism" would be "all companies should be owned 100% by the workers of said company". Not "all companies worth $100 million or more should have 20% of stocks owned by workers".