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2020 Democratic Candidates Tracker Part III

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What really grinds my gears concerning Skeptic Ginger's approach (and the approach of some others) is what I am hearing is "You don't agree with me therefore you aren't concerned enough about Sanders' vulnerability", which is just so goddamned condescending.

Just what the hell do I need to do to convince her and any other anti-Sanders people that I am taking 2020 seriously? Drop my support of Sanders? No. Not gonna happen. I am not asking her to support Sanders, she can make her own decision on who to support; it is my impression that she refuses to give me and other Sanders supporters the same respect of making our own decision. And I do not appreciate that at all.

That seems to be the typical attitude of centrist Democrats: they know best, and will lecture everyone else on why everyone else is wrong not to agree with them. And when they lose elections they'll lecture even more about why they should have won them. Might as well retitle the party as the "But, Actually Party".

Reminds me of people who try to argue you out of breaking up with them. The fact that it's come to that is itself proof no argument can possibly succeed, but they can't see that.
 
That seems to be the typical attitude of centrist Democrats: they know best, and will lecture everyone else on why everyone else is wrong not to agree with them. And when they lose elections they'll lecture even more about why they should have won them. Might as well retitle the party as the "But, Actually Party".



Reminds me of people who try to argue you out of breaking up with them. The fact that it's come to that is itself proof no argument can possibly succeed, but they can't see that.
It's not personal, though.

Neoliberal centrists think plenty of people around the world (especially outside the U.S.) don't use their freedom right, either.

;9
 
Some people on Twitter are saying that Joe Biden will be our next President
if he gets all the way to being elected as President.


Joe Biden wins the election? No. I really don't see that happening.

Biden's advantages? He clearly has have one black friend who can help him
out in the election, but Trump also has OBF, and that pretty well cancels out
the advantage. Worse, Trump has been campaigning for a while now, and for
a year now has a heavy advantage in raising funds. I have a good where those
billions of dollars go to.

Just the other day, I that noticed the local hiking club, the one that works
on the Appalachian Trail, they now have green MAGA stickers on the back
of their cars. And they said the will head out and start knocking on doors
getting five million new voters for this election, obviously without affecting
their tax status this time around.

I expect Biden will win more delegates on Super Tuesday than Sanders
and just clear the needed number of delegates to win the nomination
without any help from the superdelegates.
 
I think that a full, unequivocal endorsement plus appropriate campaigning by Obama will give any Nominee the majority of the African American vote.
And since both Obama and Biden would be able mobilize that block, nominating Joe is somewhat redundant -
provided Obama doesn't snub any other Nominee out of a misguided sense of loyalty for Biden or Clinton.
 
If that's what she meant then she should explain what she bases "You seem to be of the opinion no need to bother with that certain future the election will take" on.

Seems to me she's being awfully presumptuous.

Face it Cabbage, you just don't like my opinion.
 
Then what is the best measure at this time and why is it better than polling?

Evaluate the kinds of attacks that are likely to be used.

Evaluate how people react to those kind of attacks. You can use polls for that.

Here are some Gallup Polls one can use to argue people accept socialism.

But you can't stop there.

538: Who would Americans NOT vote for in 2015?

Of all the characteristics a voter would not vote for, "socialist" topped the list, above atheist and muslim. Again, putting a positive spin on that:
Now, this polling took place shortly after Sanders’s 2016 campaign got started, so it’s possible that attitudes have shifted since then — after all, three socialist candidates ran for Congress in the 2018 midterm elections and won. Nonetheless, an August 2018 survey from YouGov found that 41 percent of Democrats and 29 percent of independents said they would feel “enthusiastic” about or “comfortable” with “a candidate for president who described themselves as a socialist,” while 59 percent of Democrats and 71 percent of independents said they would have “some reservations” or would feel “very uncomfortable.” These numbers suggest that there is still an opportunity for Trump to score points by painting his opponent as a socialist in 2020, which in addition to revving up Republicans may also undermine the cohesion that Democrats and independents have built on anti-Trump sentiment.

You think the Trumpers can't make Sanders out to be scary?

There are clips of him promoting or speaking positively of Castro and the Sandinistas. Of him saying the government should take over businesses to address climate change. Of him saying the government should fund all health care and whatever else. When asked how that would be accomplished, his answer is, our country is rich enough, people would really pay less, blah blah blah.

Those things are just the tip of the iceberg and can be exploited with millions of dollars to sound radical, crazy, scary, and Sanders is an easy target for these attacks.

Just because a fair number of young people are enthusiastic about such a country, more people than that are easily scared away by radical changes like that. There is a long history of the US population NOT voting for radical change.

People will think their taxes will go through the roof and Sanders is so bent on his ideological argument, he cannot make a common-man case for it. He hasn't yet. He only makes the anti-capitalist case he's been making since he was a young man, the country is rich so the citizens should benefit.

That's not how this country sees itself. It sees itself as a rags to riches country.
This election is too important to risk that. Trump is dangerous and we are seeing that in how he's responding to the virus crisis.

But he pulls the wool over his cult followers by signing an agreement with the Taliban (good luck if you are female or any religion but radical Muslim in Afghanistan), and calling a bunch of vaccine developers to a photo op with him in the White House. He blames the stock market crash on a plot against him by the news media—more anti-science stupidity. Suppress bad information, throw some stats about a couple million masks out there as if that's all we need.

Just wait until he closes the Mexican border if you want to see how fast a long term recession will emerge.

I don't want to take that gamble. You would have this vote be between two extremes and one side is better at conning voters.


There is an almost as bad slew of attacks waiting for Biden. I'm not happy about that option either. But the Sanders gamble is much riskier.
 
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On that front, I think Sanders does himself no favours by saying things like “look, Cube has had success with literacy and healthcare....” it may be true but it is still a reckless and pointless thing to say in a presidential election campaign. No one is being swayed by any nuanced analysis of Cuba, or if they are it is not by the nuance, and if they are it is not in a positive way. He needs to just say, “Look, I am against the Cuban regime for reasons X, Y, Z!” Don’t bother talking of its virtues. They are irrelevant.
 
On that front, I think Sanders does himself no favours by saying things like “look, Cube has had success with literacy and healthcare....” it may be true but it is still a reckless and pointless thing to say in a presidential election campaign. No one is being swayed by any nuanced analysis of Cuba, or if they are it is not by the nuance, and if they are it is not in a positive way. He needs to just say, “Look, I am against the Cuban regime for reasons X, Y, Z!” Don’t bother talking of its virtues. They are irrelevant.

I think it's an interesting example because it is a much poorer country than the US that has been very successful in investing heavily in their poorest citizens with good results.

Looking around the world, it should be abundantly clear that the US has such intense pockets of impoverished citizens because it chooses to let these citizens languish in hopeless poverty. We have the wealth, we just don't use it wisely.
 
Doesn't matter how you qualify it, one side is still a straw man that just says "nuh uh!"

And it's still the only actually relevant part of the Bernie defense to the line of discussion in question. It's short solely because it's a much simpler argument. Not because it's a "nuh uh!" Perhaps, though, you actually think that winning head to head polling with Trump rather often at present is truly a "nuh uh!" level of argument?

Joe Biden wins the election? No. I really don't see that happening.

I don't rule it out, myself. Of minor note, a recent CNN poll had Biden narrowly beating Trump in Texas (and Warren being tied with Trump there, but the rest losing).

Still, I think that a Biden win might well be less likely than, say, a Bernie win, though there are a couple indications that I could be wrong there. For example, because of how relatively well he's been enduring the constant serious attacks on him for a while now.
 
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You think being a communist dictatorship had something to do with it?

The leftism probably had a lot to do with it. Not sure if it's necessary to be authoritarian to accomplish similar results. You don't have to be a dictatorship to invest heavily in social programs. You do have to reject individualist ideology though. There are lots of other nations that aren't authoritarian left regimes that take much better care of their people than the US.
 
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The leftism probably had a lot to do with it. Not sure if it's necessary to be authoritarian to accomplish similar results. You don't have to be a dictatorship to invest heavily in social programs. You do have to reject individualist ideology though. There are lots of other nations that aren't authoritarian left regimes that take much better care of their people than the US.

And yet somehow Bernie Sanders thinks in terms of communist Cuba.
 
Investing in all of America’s children, no matter what their postcode should be a priority for the nation’s economic future and because it is good and right. Everyone should benefit from the social contract. But maybe it’s better for businesses to have a mass of under educated poor to pay poverty wages to and make billions off of.
 
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And it's still the only actually relevant part of the Bernie defense to the line of discussion in question. It's short solely because it's a much simpler argument. Not because it's a "nuh uh!" Perhaps, though, you actually think that winning head to head polling with Trump rather often at present is truly a "nuh uh!" level of argument?


Speaking for myself, my position is necessarily shorter because, unlike Skeptic Ginger, I don't have the audacity to confidently predict future events such as the effects of the GOP campaign against Sanders.

I could probably BS a much longer argument (like she does), too, if you really need me to.
 
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