Should we fear Bernie?

[Ron_Tomkins]

As I mentioned in another thread: The controversy at that interview really shows the idiocy and binary mentality of people. Bernie clearly stated that the Cuba regime has done horrendous things, while making the point "You couldn't say that everything about it is bad", and then points out to education as an example. The whole point Bernie is making is: You can look at other countries, even countries with horrible systems of governments, and find some good things that you can model to try to inspire a similar system in your own system government.

But no, people hear that and they say "Bernie is a communist who wants to turn the US into another Cuba"

With that level of idiocy in the people, I'm not amazed that Trump got elected as President.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Guess wrong about what exactly? Face it, moderate and even conservative Democrats vote for Sanders.

Yeah but nobody from the other side is going to come to our side.

Moderate and conservative Democrats were already going to vote for whoever the Democratic nominee was. That's why they are Democrats. They are already, by definition, on your side.

Which is problem because... we lost the last election. Everybody remembers that right? You all haven't slipped into some alternative dimension where Sanders is the incumbent right?

Protecting the eggs that are already in your basket isn't enough when all the eggs in the basket weren't enough to win you the last election.

But no the narrative from the Democrats and especially the Bernie Bros has been nothing but "Whatever you do, don't try to reach out to other groups and get them on ours side because the eggs in our basket are so skittish they might all bolt."

It's how "Centrist" (da da dum, lightning strike, scare chord on the piano) has become their go-to boogeyman. But there's no more defeatist attitude in politics then "Whatever you do, don't try to appeal to the most people."

We lost 2016 because enough people in America thought the socialist takeover of America had started because the black guy tried to give them health care. Maybe, just maybe, leaning even harder into that narrative isn't a great plan.

 

[Ron_Tomkins]

No, it was a Beatles reference.

Yes, I agree he should keep on with the comparisons to Denmark.

If he starts going down the road of comparing his plans to those that exist in Cuba then it would be a mistake.

The GOP will obviously pull out any chance they can for him to say nice things about Cuba, Venezuela, China, Vietnam... etc....

He just must not take the bait; even when asked to say true things about the places.

Yeah, you do make a good point: These questions are baited to get him to say something, even remotely nice about these countries, so that then they can say "Aha!! See??? He likes Cuba and Venezuela! He's a communist!"

Bernie should find a clever way to at least point that fallacy out before answering any question about these countries. So next time someone says something like "Can you say anything positive about Soviet Russia?", before Bernie says "Well.... I guess they had good Vodka", he should think about his words very carefully, because he's being set up.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

For over a hundred years the US has tried to make Cuba part of its dominion.
It's a technicality if the US becomes the dominion of Cuba instead: the end result is the same.

 

[JoeMorgue]

As I mentioned in another thread: The controversy at that interview really shows the idiocy and binary mentality of people. Bernie clearly stated that the Cuba regime has done horrendous things, while making the point "You couldn't say that everything about it is bad", and then points out to education as an example. The whole point Bernie is making is: You can look at other countries, even countries with horrible systems of governments, and find some good things that you can model to try to inspire a similar system in your own system government.

But no, people hear that and they say "Bernie is a communist who wants to turn the US into another Cuba"

With that level of idiocy in the people, I'm not amazed that Trump got elected as President.

Nobody doesn't get that.

The thing is unless you've got some "Airtight plan to stop idiots from voting" ready to implement in the next 251 days it's gonna have the same effect.

Again I get that for a lot of people a "Well we lost but everyone on the other side is an idiot" moral victory is enough for them, but it's not for me.

 

[uke2se]

Nobody doesn't get that.

The thing is unless you've got some "Airtight plan to stop idiots from voting" ready to implement in the next 251 days it's gonna have the same effect.

Again I get that for a lot of people a "Well we lost but everyone on the other side is an idiot" moral victory is enough for them, but it's not for me.

What do you propose the Democrats do in order to - in your view - have a better chance of beating Trump?

Do you think the Democrats ought to simply stop the primaries and pick a candidate? I happen to think that's how it should be done, but I don't think it's possible in the US system. I also think a lot of voters would take umbrage with their primary votes getting ignored.

 

[Distracted1]

What do you propose the Democrats do in order to - in your view - have a better chance of beating Trump?

Do you think the Democrats ought to simply stop the primaries and pick a candidate? I happen to think that's how it should be done, but I don't think it's possible in the US system. I also think a lot of voters would take umbrage with their primary votes getting ignored.

Stop casting votes for Sanders in the primaries!
That is what I advise.
He is a candidate who will likely lose the same States Clinton lost, and possibly some of the States she won, regardless of how hard we push for him.

 

[uke2se]

Stop casting votes for Sanders in the primaries!
That is what I advise.
He is a candidate who will likely lose the same States Clinton lost, and possibly some of the States she won, regardless of how hard we push for him.

Well, since that's not going to happen - partly because the Democratic party can't control the actions of primary voters, and it appears more Democratic primary voters want Bernie than anyone else - what else should be done?

 

[JoeMorgue]

No. I'm not doing it

Sanders is a perfect candidate with wide appeal, the Democrats are a well oiled political machine that aren't running around like chickens with their heads cut off, and a massive wave of invisible, undetectable 18 year old voters are going to appear like the climax of Avengers: Endgame in all the dead rustbelt and blue wall states and vote Trump out of office. So it has been decreed, so it is the truth.

 

[Distracted1]

Well, since that's not going to happen - partly because the Democratic party can't control the actions of primary voters, and it appears more Democratic primary voters want Bernie than anyone else - what else should be done?

Sanders has the largest single group of supporters at this time, that is hardly the same thing as "more voters wanting him , rather than anyone else", but I will accept that point for the time being.


In answer to your query: Obviously, the next most likely thing to get us the White House- Thoughts and prayers.

 

[uke2se]

No. I'm not doing it

Sanders is a perfect candidate with wide appeal, the Democrats are a well oiled political machine that aren't running around like chickens with their heads cut off, and a massive wave of invisible, undetectable 18 year old voters are going to appear like the climax of Avengers: Endgame in all the dead rustbelt and blue wall states and vote Trump out of office. So it has been decreed, so it is the truth.

What?

I don't know if Sanders is a perfect candidate. He's the candidate with the most delegates thus far. Not sure I would describe the Democratic party as a well oiled machine, but I suppose that's hard with as big a tent as they are determined to have. There's certainly going to be a lot of new 18 year old voters that didn't vote last time, simply by virtue of them coming off age.

I don't understand your frustration? What should the Democratic party do to win your acceptance?

 

[angrysoba]

I've seen him mention the Cuban literacy campaign. It should be mentioned much more!

No, it should not. Certainly Sanders does not need to start talking about the Cuban this or that. To do so would be electoral suicide.

Something can simultaneously be true and also stupid to say, depending on the context.

When your election requires not being deliberately quotemined and intentionally misinterpreted, you don't do what, say, John Oliver did and say, "We can all admire Hitler for one, and only one thing. He killed Hitler! Many people talked about it, but only he did it and for that we can say, Way to go Hitler!"

If you are in a position where having that ripped from context and looped on FOX News would make a difference to your career, you shouldn't do it.

So don't say, "Way to go Cuba!" about anything. Anyyyyyyy thing!

 

[uke2se]

Well, obviously, the next most likely thing to get us the White House.

Thoughts and prayers.

And until (and if) they win, you will keep whining? Will you at least vote in November?

 

[JoeMorgue]

And until (and if) they win, you will keep whining? Will you at least vote in November?

I'm sorry I'll be good. I've accepted Bernie Sanders as my personal Lord and Savior. You'll have no more dissent from me.

 

[Distracted1]

And until (and if) they win, you will keep whining? Will you at least vote in November?

Urging other Democrats to vote in our Party's interest is "whining"? Got it.

Again, in answer to your query: Unlike an alarmingly large percentage of Sanders supporters, I will vote against Trump no matter who we run.

Voted for Clinton in 2016 too.

Likely to have the same effect this time.

 

[uke2se]

I'm sorry I'll be good. I've accepted Bernie Sanders as my personal Lord and Savior. You'll have no more dissent from me.

You don't have to go that far. All you need to do - for the sake of the US as well as the rest of the world - is to vote blue, not matter who.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Unlike an alarmingly large percentage of Sanders supporters, I will vote against Trump no matter who we run.

I do love how we're expected to stop over and over to re-affirm our loyalty to the "Orange Man Bad" side when it's Sanders supporters who have the "If we don't win we're taking our ball and going home" mentality according to the polls.

 

[uke2se]

I do love how we're expected to stop over and over to re-affirm our loyalty to the "Orange Man Bad" side when it's Sanders supporters who have the "If we don't win we're taking our ball and going home" mentality according to the polls.

Maybe cut down on the barbed comments directed at fellow non-Trump voters too, yeah?

This should be the easiest election in any US citizen's life. Just vote for the Democratic nominee.

 

[JoeMorgue]

You don't have to go that far. All you need to do - for the sake of the US as well as the rest of the world - is to vote blue, not matter who.

Again save it. The Bernie Bros are the "My candidate or nobody" crowd, not me.

I'm sick of saying it over and over. If the Dems nominate the rotting corpse of Franklin Roosevelt and run the campaign "Weekend at Bernies (no pun)" style I'll vote for the corpse.

Again ask the same question of the Bernie Bros and leave me out of it.

 

[uke2se]

Again save it. The Bernie Bros are the "My candidate or nobody" crowd, not me.

I'm sick of saying it over and over. If the Dems nominate the rotting corpse of Franklin Roosevelt and run the campaign "Weekend at Bernies (no pun)" style I'll vote for the corpse.

Again ask the same question of the Bernie Bros and leave me out of it.

Don't see any of them in this thread. I'll be sure to tell them if I see them.