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Should we fear Bernie?

PhantomWolf said:
* the end of ICE and CBP.

A lot of people want ICE gone, they are a solution looking for a problem and causing more issues than they solve. Customs and Border Patrol aren't going anywhere.
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ICE has plenty of problems to deal with please stop reading garbage.
 
Baylor said:
Those are white countries.
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We are less white than the US is (71.76% vs 73%) in our little Social Democracy down here, and yet we're listed in the top Ten Countries for Freedom, Lack of Corruption, Democracy, and Global Peace. Might be something wrong with your ideas considering all things.
 
Hercules56 said:
Bernie's been in government for a few decades now. He seems like a nice guy who's never been able to do much with his ideas.

But happens if he wins? What happens if all of his ideas suddenly are backed by major power?

Millenials don't remember the evils of Socialism but many Gen Xers and Boomers do. We remember the Gulags, the Berlin Wall, the Khmer Rouge, the barbed wire, the purges, the brutally put down revolutions.

Bernie's supporters say "oh no, that wouldn't happen here, this time it will be peaceful, freedom-loving Socialism".

Well I've read the agenda of the DSA, which Bernie is a member of. They want to destroy capitalism, end national borders. They want to put the means of production and industry and wealth into the hands of "The People", which means mass-nationalization of industry, corporations, banks, the engines of commerce.

Every national manifestation of Socialism that the world has ever seen, has been an economic disaster, a human rights disaster, or both. Do we really want to give it another shot????
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GenXers remember the Gulags, the Berlin Wall, the Khmer Rouge, the barbed wire, the purges, the brutally put down revolutions and are kind of ... meh... Nice attempt to shoehorn the GenX'rs into Boomers, Boomer!
 
Baylor said:
ICE has plenty of problems to deal with please stop reading garbage.
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ICE was formed by taking jobs away from other departments that really didn't need to have them taken away along with the Break up of INS. USCIS, BCP and the others can just as easily do those jobs just as they did for decades before 9/11.

A lot of what ICE was formed to do has already been removed back to the earlier agencies, with both the Federal Protective Service and TSA being removed. Much of the rest of it can easily be deal with by ISCIS and BCP.

About the only thing that they have outside of all that that is their Terrorist Joint Task Force work, so give the immigration enforcement over to Border and Customs and Citizen and Immigration, and reform ICE into a pure Terrorist Task Force.
 
The only thing I fear from Bernie is that he might win the nomination and lose the election. Which is what I fear about every single one of the candidates.

But admittedly, I fear that about Bernie much more than I do the other candidates. You can point out all the polls you want. Bernie in the General election will be facing an avalanche of money from rich people terrified and I question that he can compete with that.
 
PhantomWolf said:
We are less white than the US is (71.76% vs 73%) in our little Social Democracy down here, and yet we're listed in the top Ten Countries for Freedom, Lack of Corruption, Democracy, and Global Peace. Might be something wrong with your ideas considering all things.
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Your numbers are laughably wrong.
 
Hercules56 said:
Bernie's been in government for a few decades now. He seems like a nice guy who's never been able to do much with his ideas.

But happens if he wins? What happens if all of his ideas suddenly are backed by major power?

Millenials don't remember the evils of Socialism but many Gen Xers and Boomers do. We remember the Gulags, the Berlin Wall, the Khmer Rouge, the barbed wire, the purges, the brutally put down revolutions.

Bernie's supporters say "oh no, that wouldn't happen here, this time it will be peaceful, freedom-loving Socialism".

Well I've read the agenda of the DSA, which Bernie is a member of. They want to destroy capitalism, end national borders. They want to put the means of production and industry and wealth into the hands of "The People", which means mass-nationalization of industry, corporations, banks, the engines of commerce.

Every national manifestation of Socialism that the world has ever seen, has been an economic disaster, a human rights disaster, or both. Do we really want to give it another shot????
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Europe is alive and well and highly Socialistic.
 
PhantomWolf said:
ICE was formed by taking jobs away from other departments that really didn't need to have them taken away along with the Break up of INS. USCIS, BCP and the others can just as easily do those jobs just as they did for decades before 9/11.

A lot of what ICE was formed to do has already been removed back to the earlier agencies, with both the Federal Protective Service and TSA being removed. Much of the rest of it can easily be deal with by ISCIS and BCP.

About the only thing that they have outside of all that that is their Terrorist Joint Task Force work, so give the immigration enforcement over to Border and Customs and Citizen and Immigration, and reform ICE into a pure Terrorist Task Force.
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Nice try at pretending you're knowledgeable but no, ICE has plenty of problems to deal with besides terrorism.
 
Hercules56 said:
We had a ******* civil war and lost hundreds of thousands of Americans, all over the issue of slavery.
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Yeah you had a war because half of the country didn't want to give it up, even after they lost.

Slavery ended 155 years ago and the idea we should now pay reparations to the great-great-great grandchildren of slaves is absurd and will do NOTHING but stoke racial animosity and tensions.
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Yeah, Slavery was ended, and then the US Government, State Government, County Governments, all have spent that 155 years oppressing the sons and daughters, and the grandsons and granddaughters, and the great grandsons and great granddaughters, and the great, great grandsons and great, great granddaughters, and the great, great, great grandsons and great, great, great granddaughters of those Slaves. Of have you so quickly forgotten things such as Jim Crow and Ferguson?

As to the racial animosity and tensions, any increase in those only comes from people that already think that Black Americans are second class citizens already, you know, like those whose parents, grandparents, great great grandparents, and great great great grandparents were the ones supporting and benefiting from all those slavery and anti-black laws that were designed to keep the blacks in their place in the first place.
 
Baylor said:
Nice try at pretending you're knowledgeable but no, ICE has plenty of problems to deal with besides terrorism.
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Feel free to name some that can't be handled by BCP or USCIS or other agency that already does similar things?
 
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Hercules56 said:
Its funny how so many people get "social democracy" confused with Socialism.
....
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You get that Bernie calls himself a Democratic Socialist, and has run -- and been elected and re-elected -- on that platform all his career, right? Would you feel better if he just called himself a Social Democrat?
 
Hercules56 said:
We had a ******* civil war and lost hundreds of thousands of Americans, all over the issue of slavery.

Slavery ended 155 years ago and the idea we should now pay reparations to the great-great-great grandchildren of slaves is absurd and will do NOTHING but stoke racial animosity and tensions.
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The idea that slavery ended in the US 155 years ago is laughable.

What followed the emancipation for 100 of those years was in many ways worse. African Americans were paid less and deprived of opportunities on a nationwide scale and not just in the South. In the South in particular, lots of laws were passed that created a de facto slavery. Such as vagrancy laws where you could be arrested if you didn't have money and then have to work to pay your board for the jail cell.

Things didn't really start to get better until WW2 and has slowly gotten better.

I doubt reparations will ever be paid. That said, I absolutely believe they are owed.
 
acbytesla said:
The idea that slavery ended in the US 155 years ago is laughable.

What followed the emancipation for 100 of those years was in many ways worse. African Americans were paid less and deprived of opportunities on a nationwide scale and not just in the South.
.....
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Let's not go overboard. America has a terrible civil rights record, but nothing is worse than slavery.
 
acbytesla said:
The idea that slavery ended in the US 155 years ago is laughable.

What followed the emancipation for 100 of those years was in many ways worse. African Americans were paid less and deprived of opportunities on a nationwide scale and not just in the South. In the South in particular, lots of laws were passed that created a de facto slavery. Such as vagrancy laws where you could be arrested if you didn't have money and then have to work to pay your board for the jail cell.

Things didn't really start to get better until WW2 and has slowly gotten better.

I doubt reparations will ever be paid. That said, I absolutely believe they are owed.
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Show me a living black slave from before the 14th Amendment and I agree they should be paid.
 
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