Cont: Donald Trump has 'dangerous mental illness' say psychiatry experts at Yale... Pt 3

[xjx388]

Any mental illness in a person is his position is dangerous. Rational thought is a crucial part of the job.

That’s ridiculous. If you accept the idea of being able to discern mental illness from afar, shrinks have told us that many Presidents have had some form of mental illness.

What you are basically saying is that we should discriminate against people based solely on if they are mentally ill. That doesn’t sound right to me at all. What’s important isn’t whether or not a particular POTUS has a mental illness; it’s the things they actually do while a candidate and in office. Actions, not perceived mental state.

 

[Loss Leader]

17 posts have been sent to AAH as violations of Rules 0 and 12. Infractions have been given. Be more civil. Argue the facts and Stop. The. Sniping. Thank you.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Loss Leader

 

[Stacyhs]

Any mental illness in a person is his position is dangerous. Rational thought is a crucial part of the job.

That’s ridiculous. If you accept the idea of being able to discern mental illness from afar, shrinks have told us that many Presidents have had some form of mental illness.

What you are basically saying is that we should discriminate against people based solely on if they are mentally ill. That doesn’t sound right to me at all. What’s important isn’t whether or not a particular POTUS has a mental illness; it’s the things they actually do while a candidate and in office. Actions, not perceived mental state.

How do you get from "in a person in his position" to "we should discriminate against people based solely on if they are mentally ill"?

 

[xjx388]

How do you get from "in a person in his position" to "we should discriminate against people based solely on if they are mentally ill"?

The underlying idea is that people with mental illness are not suited to be President. I think that's overbroad and unfair to the vast majority of people with mental illness. We shouldn't be judging people based on a diagonsis; we should be judging people based on their actions and temperment. To say someone is dangerous simply because they've been diagnosed with a mental illness and therefore shouldn't be "a person in his position," is discriminatory.

Indeed, it's not even a standard that anyone has applied in the past (with one notable exception which lead to the Goldwater Rule) nor is it a standard anyone is actually going to apply going forward. One in five people have been diagnosed with a mental illness in the US; the actual prevalence is probably higher due to the stigma attached to it and people not seeking treatment. This means that among the 11 still active Democratic Party POTUS candidates, 2 or 3 of them probably have been diagnosed with a mental illness. Where's Duty to Warn when you need them?

 

[Matthew Best]

One in five people have been diagnosed with a mental illness in the US ... This means that among the 11 still active Democratic Party POTUS candidates, 2 or 3 of them probably have been diagnosed with a mental illness.

That seems like a stretch. You're saying that the Dem candidates are just a representative sample of general society?

 

[xjx388]

That seems like a stretch. You're saying that the Dem candidates are just a representative sample of general society?

Oh crap, you are right. I forgot to factor in that they were American politicians. Correction: more like 5 or 6 of them have been diagnosed with mental illness.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Oh crap, you are right. I forgot to factor in that they were American politicians. Correction: more like 5 or 6 of them have been diagnosed with mental illness.

What you forgot is that this is a straw man argument. No one said mental illness was the issue. It's Trump's specific mental illness and how it is manifested that is the issue.

 

[jimbob]

What you forgot is that this is a straw man argument. No one said mental illness was the issue. It's Trump's specific mental illness and how it is manifested that is the issue.

Yup, there's a difference between having a mental illness that didn't affect their functioning too much - and might even have led to a particular drive and a complete disconnect from reality, which Trump seems to be displaying.

 

[xjx388]

What you forgot is that this is a straw man argument. No one said mental illness was the issue. It's Trump's specific mental illness and how it is manifested that is the issue.

Strawman? No.

The title of the thread is "Donald Trump has 'dangerous mental illness' . . ."

You just said Trump's mental illness is the issue. You can't special plead your way out of the core problem here: mental illness is being used to explain the negative qualities and bad behavior of a public figure. If we ever hope to reduce the stigma associated with mental illness, we have to divorce "bad" and "dangerous" from "mentally ill."

Mental illness -and the way society views it- is indeed an issue here. You asked me awhile back to demonstrate the harm being done by the Yale Group and their public discussion of Trump. Here it is in black and white.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Strawman? No.

The title of the thread is "Donald Trump has 'dangerous mental illness' . . ."

You just said Trump's mental illness is the issue. You can't special plead your way out of the core problem here: mental illness is being used to explain the negative qualities and bad behavior of a public figure. If we ever hope to reduce the stigma associated with mental illness, we have to divorce "bad" and "dangerous" from "mentally ill."

Mental illness -and the way society views it- is indeed an issue here. You asked me awhile back to demonstrate the harm being done by the Yale Group and their public discussion of Trump. Here it is in black and white.

It's a straw man. Playing pedantic games with anytime someone mentioned mental illness instead of Trump's specific NPD doesn't make it not a straw man.

NO ONE IN THE THREAD OR IN DR LEE'S LINK HAS SAID ANY AND ALL MENTAL ILLNESS IS THE SAME. NO ONE!

 

[Steve]

It's a straw man. Playing pedantic games with anytime someone mentioned mental illness instead of Trump's specific NPD doesn't make it not a straw man.

NO ONE IN THE THREAD OR IN DR LEE'S LINK HAS SAID ANY AND ALL MENTAL ILLNESS IS THE SAME. NO ONE!

That was probably true right up until xjx388 said it.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Is "being a crabby bunny" a mental illness? Because it seems to be spreading around! Can't we all just come together nicely to celebrate our president's obvious criminal insanity?

 

[Steve]

Is "being a crabby bunny" a mental illness? Because it seems to be spreading around! Can't we all just come together nicely to celebrate our president's obvious criminal insanity?

Exactly. It seems that very few are saying that he is not insane and a criminal. Mostly his supporters are saying those are fine characteristics for a POTUS.

 

[jimbob]

Strawman? No.

The title of the thread is "Donald Trump has 'dangerous mental illness' . . ."

You just said Trump's mental illness is the issue. You can't special plead your way out of the core problem here: mental illness is being used to explain the negative qualities and bad behavior of a public figure. If we ever hope to reduce the stigma associated with mental illness, we have to divorce "bad" and "dangerous" from "mentally ill."

Mental illness -and the way society views it- is indeed an issue here. You asked me awhile back to demonstrate the harm being done by the Yale Group and their public discussion of Trump. Here it is in black and white.

Trump's performance does indeed show him unsuited to commend or indeed being in charge of anything complex. He literally behaves like a preschooler during the national anthem. I have gathered that the flag and the national anthem are quite important in US culture - more so than in Britain, for example.

To be fair, recently his declining faculties have overshadowed his other character defects (which also made him unsuited to any position of power).

The thread title was that Trump has a dangerous mental illness. The implication is that there are non-dangerous mental illnesses as well - which is true. There are many that cause distress to the sufferer but aren't generally dangerous to them or anyone else.

However, having a demented Commander in Chief doesn't seem to be an unequivocally brilliant idea.

 

[Bob001]

.....
Mental illness -and the way society views it- is indeed an issue here. You asked me awhile back to demonstrate the harm being done by the Yale Group and their public discussion of Trump. Here it is in black and white.

"Mental illness" covers a lot of ground, and includes a lot of attitudes and behaviors that don't interfere with rational thought or functioning. But mental health is a legitimate requirement for many jobs. Law enforcement applicants are usually required to pass a psychological screening, and are subject to monitoring throughout their careers. Psychological screening is a basic part of applying for and keeping a government security clearance. Many employers administer the MMPI or other screening tools. And the officers who control nuclear weapons are subject to the most intense screening and continuous monitoring.

Trump couldn't pass any of it. That might not matter for a NYC real estate hustler or a TV reality star. But that's not where Trump sits today.

 

[theprestige]

I'm still waiting for someone to articulate the danger we're supposed to be concerned about.

Dr Lee has unequivocally called for the immediate removal of the President from office, on account of the danger he poses. I'd like to see some more in-depth analysis of what this danger is likely to be, why it hasn't manifested yet, and what's likely to cause it to manifest.

NPD is a reasonably well-understood condition, isn't it? A confident diagnosis of NPD should enable strong predictions about behavior. And not just typical hot-reading stuff like "he'll continue to say stupid stuff on Twitter." Actual medical insights not readily accessible to lay observers.

 

[xjx388]

It's a straw man. Playing pedantic games with anytime someone mentioned mental illness instead of Trump's specific NPD doesn't make it not a straw man.

NO ONE IN THE THREAD OR IN DR LEE'S LINK HAS SAID ANY AND ALL MENTAL ILLNESS IS THE SAME. NO ONE!

No one has said it? Everyone is linking mental illness to Trump’s negative qualities. Why is Trump dangerous? Because he’s mentally ill. It’s the linking of mental illness to negative qualities that’s the problem.

Why do you need to mention mental illness at all? Why not just argue that he’s dangerous because of his ignorance, incompetence, etc?

 

[RecoveringYuppy]

Why do you need to mention mental illness at all? Why not just argue that he’s dangerous because of his ignorance, incompetence, etc?

Why avoid mentioning one of the reasons he is dangerous?

 

[xjx388]

Why avoid mentioning one of the reasons he is dangerous?

Because being mentally ill isn't actually what makes him dangerous.

Mentally ill does not equate to dangerous. It's a stereotype.

 

[jimbob]

Why avoid mentioning one of the reasons he is dangerous?

Because being mentally ill isn't actually what makes him dangerous.

Mentally ill does not equate to dangerous. It's a stereotype.

Please stop with the vapours.

It's not a generic mental illness that is the problem, it's the fact that the Commander in Chief is supposed to take difficult decisions with complex geopolitical ramifications that affect the lives of Americans in dangerous parts of the world. Trump literally behaved like a preschooler during the national anthem - that's a sign that something is very wrong with his mind.