Merged 2019-nCoV / Corona virus

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Already answered and it's no.



Except it's not one person infecting 61, it's probably one person infecting half a dozen, times three generations of infection. You need to factor in two things - people are infectious before symptoms appear, and cruise ships are superb breeding grounds for infection, hence the constant norovirus outbreaks.

All the evidence to date suggests an R0 of about 2.5 - one person infects 2.5 others. Compare that to norovirus, which is about 4. Measles is over 8.



Yes - as you say, cruise ships are extremely effective environments for incubating and transmitting things like viruses.

Going back to something you wrote in another recent post, the other factor in this whole equation is the incubation period. It's constantly difficult to get a decent idea of what the infection rate is at any given point in time, because a lot of people will have become infected without even knowing it (and even, say, 3/4 of the way into the incubation time, they may feel slightly unwell but obviously won't be displaying anything near to full-blown symptoms). So the authorities constantly need to use mathematical extrapolations to estimate the current rates of infection. Difficult stuff.
 
Is this virus like TB and smallpox (stay deadly for a long time) or flu (ceases to be a killer after a few years)?
Think of these pathogens as evolving around niches.

Influenza mutates readily. That is an advantage for the niche it occupies: infect a lot of people, don't kill too many since dead people don't spread it. But the mutations aren't guided by any master plan other than random genetic change. So deadly flus arise. They naturally become attenuated because mutations that result in mild cases get passed on, lethal mutations are self limited. Those mutation branches die out.

TB is a bacteria, very slow growing. Mutations tend toward developing antibiotic resistance. There is no genetic mechanism favoring mutations to milder disease. Like with HIV, you can infect a lot of people before you die. No selection pressure to get weaker, but clear selection pressure to develop drug resistance.

Small pox was before my time so I know less about it. It has typically had about a 30% fatality rate. Maybe that was a steady state, I'm just guessing.

Generally speaking the population that got infected is the one that selection pressure affected. TB is similar. Populations with generations of coexistence developed resistance. Human genetic change develops very slowly.

Unless you wipe out 95% of a population. Then people with genetic resistance that survive such epidemics have offspring with some of the resistance. Such is what happened with Native Americans and smallpox, first a lot of them died, later not so many.

This happened with rabbits in Australia. Humans thought bringing a deadly rabbit virus to the continent would solve the rabbit problem. Rabbits reproduce rapidly. So that ~5% that survived rapidly reproduced and voilá, you have a high level of resistance in the rabbit population.

With TB: Pacific Islanders and Native Americans still have greater susceptibility to disease if they get infected. Not enough generations yet since their population was exposed to TB.

Back to coronavirus, it has a moderate mutation rate, not as fast as flu, but faster than say measles. So it will naturally attenuate if we don't stop it altogether.

BTW, one reason viruses like measles don't mutate as much is because vaccines prevent the virus multiplying. That lowers the mutation rate. Before the vaccine, new crops of kids were born allowing the virus to go on being deadly but not so much it wiped out its host.

That will never happen with flu vaccines because the reservoir is much too huge.


Bottom line, there is no one size fits all and resistance is a very complicated thing.



One person infecting 61 other people! That is one infectious virus. If other passengers catch it from these 61 people then society has a major problem. If the rest of the passengers are safe then so is society.
Depends what his job was. Could be he made the salads or something. He also could have had very poor hand hygiene. Maybe his job was to greet guests and shake their hands.

Another possibility is those 61 people were out of a couple thousand potentially exposed. That might mean it was not very contagious.
 
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Five Brits in French ski resort have tested positive after coming into contact with another Brit recently returned from Singapore.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51425702

The new cases all stem from a British national who arrived at Contamines-Montjoie ski resort, in Haute-Savoie, on 24 January for a four-day trip, before returning to England on 28 January.

What? The clue should have been in the name.

Actually, that's not far from where my sister lives in Les Houches.
 
What about the already felt economic effects?

World wide, not effects of the disease, those are effects of the panic. In China,where they probably tried acupuncture or reindeer velvet first, I don't much care.No deaths in first world countries.
 
Still only 2 deaths outside of China. What is the environmental factor? Poor care? Smoking, polluted air? Incense? Vitamin or protein deficiency? Or is it genetics?
 
Still only 2 deaths outside of China. What is the environmental factor? Poor care? Smoking, polluted air? Incense? Vitamin or protein deficiency? Or is it genetics?

More likely the ratio of ill people to healthcare available. China has top facilities, comparable to western ones. But only few of them. The most heavily affected areas don't even have enough beds. There also isn't enough stuff. Many people report some patients have no treatment at all, they are just kept separated.
 
Still only 2 deaths outside of China. What is the environmental factor? Poor care? Smoking, polluted air? Incense? Vitamin or protein deficiency? Or is it genetics?

Numbers.

If we had the more than 30,000 patients and an overwhelmed hospital system we'd see more deaths. And given China has run low on test kits and hospital beds, there is probably a large uncounted number of infections.

Outside of China we may not be seeing the number of elderly infected. And I still think the smoking variable hasn't been well addressed.
 
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5 Brits infected from their British friend, who was in Singapore. In French Alps. I'd say the genie is out of the bottle.

I thought that exact same thing - five Poms catching it from a bloke who'd been in Singapore? That's a fair way from ground zero, and suggests there's a lot more to come. 40 cases in Singapore right now, and we know it's the site of several infections, while the official numbers say and 2 in India and none in Africa? Call me skeptical.

I was hoping you'd still be here, because those Wiki stats you provided are highly useful and reveal a highly disturbing pattern - while the D/(D+R) rate looks like it's fallen to 20%, but those numbers are skewed by ~1000 new severe cases a day over the past few days.

You seem to be one of very few people who's disturbed by the maths rather than media details, which seem designed to prevent panic rather than present facts.

Those numbers mean that a significant percentage of cases have turned serious, and going by the case of the dead whistle-blowing doctor, it takes a couple of weeks to go bad, so the ratio of serious cases to cases is probably about 30%.

I think arguments that mild cases aren't being caught is now redundant, because I'd say China is testing everyone who sneezes, let alone has a fever.

With lockdowns about to end and China returning to work, I think the bad news is only just starting.

The last hope for health services worldwide is that the virus weakens through generations. The evidence of that will be the western cases, where all will be at least 3rd generation infections and reporting will be accurate.
 
Well, I'd say I'm curious about the numbers. I like numbers. I like graphs.
Sadly I'm more and more convinced the numbers are totally fabricated, and thus irrelevant.
China isn't testing everybody who sneezes. They only test people with severe symptoms only. Also they are supposedly not testing dead. They for sure are not testing people repeatedly, they simply don't have capacity for that.
I'm waiting for more data from western countries. I'd agree it's only starting.
 
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Swine flu, bird flu,... Pangolin Flu?

Since it's not a flu, and it with all likelihood originated in Bats, a better term would be "Bat borne disease". Apparently Bats can harbour countless nasty viruses and other infectious diseases without dying. One notable exception is Rabies.
 
Since it's not a flu, and it with all likelihood originated in Bats, a better term would be "Bat borne disease". Apparently Bats can harbour countless nasty viruses and other infectious diseases without dying. One notable exception is Rabies.

Wuhan coronavirus is being used on Wikipedia and I think it's good enough.
 
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